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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to go of a friend who has just been on a sex tourist trip to Thailand?

457 replies

Hairyjumper · 29/01/2011 01:18

Single male friend, just been on 2 weeks holiday where he paid women to fuck him.
Have had quite a cerebral discussion with him about it.
He says it is not seedy , no pimps blah blah.

I thought I was open minded but it just seems wrong.

OP posts:
notjustapotforsoup · 01/02/2011 18:36

Dittany, I entirely agree on the zero tolerance approach. And that we have to be forceful. I refuse to believe that these men are actually that ignorant of the facts. Delusional, disturbed and dangerous, but not clueless. I am with you (I think it was you?) who sees that the whole point of going there in the first place is that they can do things to people that are illegal, immoral and available to be purchased in a way that they are not in their home country. So, softly, softly won't work. They will continue to do whatever they want until they are stopped. This is NOT a hearts and minds operation.

GOML - I watched Two and a Half Men for the first time the other day and I couldn't believe how shit it was. I thought I was back in the 80s. That it is so highly rated is so depressing. I was gasping on pretty much every occasion that the rest of the audience were laughing (I was on a plane).

ccpccp · 01/02/2011 18:37

Link please.

notjustapotforsoup · 01/02/2011 18:38

I reckon greengrocery is the oldest profession.

AnyFucker · 01/02/2011 18:44

hitting rocks with other rocks is the oldest industry in the world

kerala · 01/02/2011 18:47

Never understand that oldest profession bollocks. I would guess slavery predates prostitution but no one leaps to defend that on the grounds it went on in the ancient world Hmm

begonyabampot · 01/02/2011 18:48

it is a hearts and minds operation for the many guys who use these women (whether a one off experience, girlfriend for the week, or get pissed and get carried along when the girls come on to them) - talk to them, educate them, shame them. For the paeds and perverts who go specifically for children - then only catching and arresting them will work as nothing will change their mind.

Rhadegunde · 01/02/2011 18:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kerala · 01/02/2011 18:56

Wtf would Charlie Sheen have to do to lose his popularity.. domestic violence, use of prostitutes obviously a sleaze but successful nonetheless. What a great role model. Depressing.

Rhadegunde · 01/02/2011 18:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Andre1960 · 01/02/2011 19:48

dittany As you speak about me, I'll take it you're giving consent for me to reply. Also you 'wondered' so
here goes: -

Read my posts, long as they are, and I hope you'll understand what i've said. If they don't comply with teenage girl etiquette you may have to excuse that Smile. Or don't read them, or disregard them, as you wish.

You don't need to be humble in your views - you just need to try hard to apply the right views to the right things in a clear manner otherwise confusion reigns and there's loads of that in the world already. The things you spoke about in your post about child abuse and rape are truly dreadful. How does it help if you cry 'rape' when someone posts out of turn on an internet forum? How does it help if you accuse someone you doesn't agree with you of being indifferent to rape and child abuse? You confuse the shit out of the situation by bandying these terms about so indiscriminately.

There may be ways of dealing with injustice and suffering that are more honourable and effective than yours. I'm discouraged when I listen to you.

Binfullofmaggotsonthe45 · 01/02/2011 20:06

Better discouraged than.....sleepy?

dittany · 01/02/2011 20:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mists · 01/02/2011 20:13

Excellent point about slavery.

dittany · 01/02/2011 20:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

catinthehat2 · 01/02/2011 20:34

"Read my posts, long as they are, and I hope you'll understand what i've said"

nah, we need the 3 point executive summary.

you bore normal people

probably IRL too

dittany · 01/02/2011 20:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GetOrfMoiLand · 01/02/2011 20:49

Charlie Sheen disgusts me. I watched Wall Street on telly the other night, I really like that film and haven't seen it for years, he was a talented actor I think.

20 years + 57 playboy playmates and a couple of million quids worth of cocaine later, and look at him.

Yet he is lauded in Hollywood as he is in a top-rated show and therefore is succesful.

Rhadegunde · 01/02/2011 21:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hairyjumper · 01/02/2011 22:04

so now I am being attacked Hmm

To clarify, my friend is not a rapist.
And I am neither a fool nor a moral imbecile

OP posts:
Andre1960 · 01/02/2011 22:04

Binfullofmaggotsonthe45 "Better discouraged than.....sleepy?"

Discouragement, sleepiness and misdirected effort all achieve the same end - SFA.

Dittany I addressed you because you addressed me. You addressed me rather in the manner of a peeved wife at the dinner table saying to one of her children 'tell daddy to pass me the salt'. Am I allowed to call this silliness? If you include my name in a post I can include yours.

begonyabampot I agree it's got to be both a hearts and minds operation and a control operation. Hearts and minds can be changed. Men who visit prostitutes see women as somehow accepting or benefitting or less worthy of consideration. Some see them as the enemy or have severe anxieties, anger, etc, and these men are going to be dangerous. If they're foreign women it's easier to wrap these justifications up in attitudes to do with the foreignness.

It's a tricky one! Part of the problem is that men see women as the 'other'. That allows different rules according to how the 'other' is perceived. Many women endorse this, tacitly or otherwise, but have their own ideas about the rules. While it's necessary to ask men to take responsibility for their behaviour as men, it doesn't help women to strengthen these notions of 'otherness' by setting men apart from them. Honesty, fairness, empathy, proportionality, understanding, consistency and forgiveness are necessary but so is calling a spade a spade, that's what's tricky. What doesn't help is constructing careless mythologies too much based on the least generous interpretation of the actions of the worst. People change in the direction of expectations, good and bad.

Calling a man who has sex with a prostitute a rapist regardless of the nature of the encounter doesn't help him. I guess it depends on priorities. If you want to make the case for a connection between prostitution, wider values, a whole lot of other things and rape, with examples and supporting arguments then that's one thing. However, if you want to persuade that's another. For most people 'shock and awe' doesn't work - it's impressive but it doesn't work.

catinthehat2 · 01/02/2011 22:07

3 point executive summary

or it doesn't get read

that's real life Andre

NinjaCuckoo · 01/02/2011 22:09

What is your attitude towards sex workers who provide a 'service' for disabled people who cannot develop/sustain relationships due to their disability?

Do you feel they (the workers) are being exploited?

I know a disabled man who pays for sex as he cannot get it any other way. Is he a rapist?

AnyFucker · 01/02/2011 22:10

HJ...you didn't tell us if your friend is, in fact, your partner

could you just tell us that ?

ta

Hairyjumper · 01/02/2011 22:10

dittany, get your facts right and do not put words into my mouth.
You too northerngobshite, at no point did I defend his behaviour.

OP posts:
Hairyjumper · 01/02/2011 22:12

AF, no, he is not my partner, I stated at the start(or meant to if I didn't ) he is single

OP posts: