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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In wanting to sing hymms at a civil wedding ceremony?

156 replies

MrsHenryWood · 27/01/2011 13:33

And possibly have religious readings too? I see these things as lovely parts of my cultural heritage, and don't see why I shouldn't be able to have access to them, just because I'm not getting married in a church.

AIBU? Or is it time that the law changed?

OP posts:
ISNT · 27/01/2011 16:46

Good posts jugglingjo and tricolor Smile

narkypuffin · 27/01/2011 16:47

This gives more background to the introduction of civil marriage.

"Despite their desire to woo the Dissenters there was no desire to disestablish the Anglican church."

So maybe, as well as not winding up the CofE more than necessary, the government didn't want to directly challenge church weddings, and that's why no mention of god in civil wedding ceremonies

GrimmaTheNome · 27/01/2011 16:47

Sparkle - if I had my time again, under current rules I'd marry in a nice non-religious venue with no religious content.

But I can entirely see that for a lot of people a certain hymn or poem may be something they like, with sentimental or family meaning - wanting to sing a hymn is (to someone who doesn't really believe) not actually worshipping god or acting a lie. Its simply singing a song which happens to have come from a religious culture. Not a big deal.

GetOrfMoiLand · 27/01/2011 16:49

This is an interestting debate.

i am an atheist however absolutely love singing hymns, Christmas carols and like visiting churches. I have absolutely no idea why - but I think the love of hymns comes from a very kind Christian neighbour who took me to church when I was a child.

If ever To be A Pilgrim comes on Songs of Praise or whatever, I sing along very happily. I don't think it is necessary to have to believe the words of a hymn - but this hymn reminds me of a happy time in an utterly miserable childhood.

narkypuffin · 27/01/2011 16:50

I wonder how much money the Church(es) would lose now if people could have a full, traditional wedding service minus the church and vicar/priest. The hotels with gardens and function rooms would be drooling though.

CloudsAway · 27/01/2011 16:53

I think you should be allowed to have hymns, too.

Many people have some belief in God, but perhaps aren't entirely clear about how and what they believe, haven't found a denomination that suits them, etc, but might still like the idea of making vows before God or being thankful/praising Him as part of a wedding. A lot of churchgoers are pretty sniffy about people having a church wedding if they aren't regular church-goers, but it seems unfair and very black and white to tell someone that if they aren't ready or able to commit totally to the church then they're not very welcome at a church wedding, but mustn't include any religion in a civil one.

I have a very religious friend who complains about all the couples who marry in her church when they aren't regular members, and she thinks they shouldn't be allowed. Whilst some of them might be doing it for the pretty pictures, others might be doing it because vows before God are still important to them even if that is as far as their faith extends at the moment, and I think that is something worth celebrating and encouraging, rather than dismissing.

And the same would go for a civil wedding. There might well be reasons why they would have liked elements of a church wedding but were unable to or felt uncomfortable with other aspects. Why ban any expressions of faith at all? Who is it possibly hurting to have hymns that are important to the couple there?

Tradition might also have meaning to them, whether they believe in the words or not; a lot of other aspects of weddings and other ceremonies and rites in society are based on tradition and offer comfort or hope as a result.

SparkleSoiree · 27/01/2011 16:55

I was posting about ceremonies as I thought I read earlier up the thread that the OP made a comment that she would consider getting married in a church...will have to go check again.. Confused

jugglingjo · 27/01/2011 17:00

Whatever you think about Jesus ( who the Christian faith is after all based on ! )

when you think about the sort of things he had to say about the pharisees, or about welcoming everyone, what on earth do you think he would make of such petty rules ?

Either looking down on us from heaven, or if he was to return, or whatever ?

However you look at it this just isn't right !

narkypuffin · 27/01/2011 17:02

It does seem odd that you can't play a Robbie Williams song (Angels) - though it would seem odd to want to.

narkypuffin · 27/01/2011 17:03

Organised religion is generally about hearts, minds, bums on seats and money in the collection.

Katey1010 · 27/01/2011 17:03

I love Amazing Grace and couldn't have it (didn't get married in a Church because of deeply held non-beliefs). My Dad sorted this out by having a bagpiper (for him) playing us into the reception with Amazing Grace (for me!).

Just because you're an Atheist doesn't mean you don't appreciate a good tune Grin

StuffingGoldBrass · 27/01/2011 17:07

OK I am a humanist wedding celebrant and if a couple asked me if they could include (say) Jerusalem in their wedding becauase it had particular significance for them I would probably say yes, why not (I like it, too). But if they wanted two hymns, a bible reading and a prayer I would politely advise them to seek out a vicar/priest. Or tell them to have a look here for celebrants who perform ceremonies that can include as much religious guff content as you want.
My personal preference would be for everyone, believer or not, to have to register their marriage legally and then have the ceremony of their choice.

GrimmaTheNome · 27/01/2011 17:11

SGB - that would of course be the logical solution. Maybe we'll get out of the 19th century sometime in the 21st!

BTW, I found this - don't know whether this relaxation of the rules has actually happened?

SparkleSoiree · 27/01/2011 17:17

I just wish everyone would get on and be able to do what they want if it does not interfere with anyone else. I may not understand other people's choices but it would be fab if everyone could have what they wanted.

Original poster
MrsHenryWood · 27/01/2011 17:29

SparkleSoiree, I wouldn't have a probalem with getting married in a church in spite of not believing in God;I think that the service, sermon and vows are deeply beautiful, and they have touched me very deeply at other people's weddings.

I may not be religious, but I respond emotionally to the weight of spirituality and my cultural tradition, the beauty and familiarity of the language, the thoughts behind the sermons and the wonderful atmosphere of old churches; to me it would be about taking part in a time-honoured ritual that my forbears have carried out for generations, rather than about the worship of God. So shoot me! Grin

OP posts:
SparkleSoiree · 27/01/2011 17:48

No shooting here MrsHenryWood! When you write your thoughts like that it is very touching.

Besides aren't we supposed to use handbags instead of shooting?? Grin

Devilforasideboard · 27/01/2011 17:51

We were told if we wanted hyms or religious readings we could have them after the registrar had left. So what's the problem?

cat64 · 27/01/2011 17:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

SweetKate · 27/01/2011 17:52

I know it was 10 years ago that we got married - but the registrar was very firm that at the civil service we could have songs / readings but they could not be religious.

I hadn't wanted a church service for a number of reasons and felt comfortable with that.

If we had wanted hymns then we would have had a church wedding.

Not quite sure you would want hymns at a civil service?!

cat64 · 27/01/2011 17:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

venusandmarzipan · 27/01/2011 18:35

The law is slightly different in Scotland. Here you have more choices - you can have a religious church wedding, a civil marriage, a legal humanist wedding or a legal interfaith wedding.

A religious church wedding is likely to be bound by the traditions and beliefs of the particular chuch. Some religions will only marry you in a consecrated place, some will perform the ceremony in other places.

A civil marriage performed by a registrar can be in a registry office or other licenced place. It is not a religious ceremony and cannot contain religious or spiritual content.

A humanist ceremony is performed by a licenced and trained humanist celebrant. It can take place anywhere that is approriate and safe. It is not a religious ceremony and connot contain religious or spiritual content.

Other licenced and trained celebrants (e.g. interfaith ministers) can perform the ceremony in any place that is appropriate and safe. It can contain as much or as little spiritual content and the couple want (and that the celebrant agrees is appropriate).

This gives a couple getting married much more flexibility and choice about the kind of ceremony they want.

DitaVonCheese · 27/01/2011 19:22

YABU, but largely because both Jerusalem and I vow to thee my country at weddings make my teeth curl.

purplehaze33 · 28/01/2011 11:25

I love hyms, i love church, I love women so I don't get a choice. I would love a church wedding just not on offer for me....

PlanetLizard · 28/01/2011 11:41

I hope it will become a possibility for those in your situation one day purplehaze33 :)

venusandmarzipan · 28/01/2011 12:19

Yes purplehaze the biggest inequality in Scotland is that there are all those choices for a heterosexual marriage, yet still here a civil partnership has to be a civil ceremony with no religious or spiritual content, and the religious ceremony has to take place seperately.

I love the current flexibility of the marriage laws in Scotland but I agree with other posters, if every marriage had to have a legal element that was just that, then choose the ceremony of their choice, at least it would all be the same.