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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In wanting to sing hymms at a civil wedding ceremony?

156 replies

MrsHenryWood · 27/01/2011 13:33

And possibly have religious readings too? I see these things as lovely parts of my cultural heritage, and don't see why I shouldn't be able to have access to them, just because I'm not getting married in a church.

AIBU? Or is it time that the law changed?

OP posts:
marantha · 27/01/2011 16:14

Yeah, man, he sure digs getting on down and boogieing to 'All Things Bright and Beautiful'.

MotherMountainGoat · 27/01/2011 16:16

This is a profoundly silly rule. My aunt finally divorced her lunatic H after many years of emotional abuse, culminating in him threatening to kill her. She was a Christian (she's sadly now died) but was not allowed to remarry in a church, even though the divorce was absolutely not her fault in the first place. She was very upset by not having any religious content at her wedding. I don't get the all or nothing approach - only hymns in a church and nothing religious in civil ceremonies.

By the way, in many countries (eg Germany) NO church weddings are legally binding - everyone has to get married in a registry office as well. Some people try to plan both on the same day, and others have a small registry do first and then a main church bash some time later. The same rule applies about 'no hymns' in registry offices, but it doesn't worry people on the whole as having two ceremonies is standard.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 27/01/2011 16:16

Civil ceremonies are non-secular. Sing something from the charts instead. :)

PlanetLizard · 27/01/2011 16:18

narkypuffin, do you have any links to the history please?

GORGEOUSX · 27/01/2011 16:19

MotherMountainGoat Gosh, you really know how to make a party rock.... Sad

GORGEOUSX · 27/01/2011 16:21

LyingWitch Or a bit of country - D.I.V.O.R.C.E. ???Grin

marantha · 27/01/2011 16:22

If you sang , 'All Things Bright and Beautiful' followed by Iron Maiden's 'Number of the Beast', wouldn't the two just cancel each other out?
Would this be permissible?

GrimmaTheNome · 27/01/2011 16:23

Civil ceremonies are non-secular. Sing something from the charts instead

But some chart songs get banned too!

The church doesn't have copyright on hymns or the bible. Its an entirely bizarre rule.

narkypuffin · 27/01/2011 16:24

I wikied it Grin

Marriage was a huge deal because of inheritance rights.

Roughly, The Church of England had complete authority over marriage. A vicar could marry two people in a field and say it was valid. Wealthy families often married off their chidren at a young age.

1753: The government wanted to stop all the legal fall out from 'secret' marriages and elopements- where people challenged the validity of the marriage, often years later- and to state minimum legal ages for marriage. They got an act passed saying that all marriages should be in a CofE church and that paperwork must be submitted for them to have legal standing. They managed to invalidate all Catholic marriages!

1836: They ammended the law to allow Catholices and Non-conformists to be married in their own churches and have the weddings legally recognised, by giving the priests the powers to register them.
They also introduced a civil registry of marriage, so you could go to a town hall and marry without any religious service. This meant all other religions eg Jews, Hindus etc could register.

The no god thing dated from then. The church (of England) was pissed off enough about the changes without the government giving registering powers to eg Rabbis Shock or letting people have a religious service outside of a church. If they hadn't made clear the distinction from a religious service they wouldn't have got the act passed.

marantha · 27/01/2011 16:26

GORGEOUSX Sorry, but country music IS the work of the devil and should not be allowed ANYWHERE.

StuffingGoldBrass · 27/01/2011 16:27

The law on no hymns (or Islamic/Hindu/Zoroastrian equivalent) at register office weddings is simply a matter of making the weddings a legal matter not a superstitious one, and barring all superstitions equally - it would have been started at the behest of the christian myth peddlers who wouldn't have wanted to surrender any of their power base in the first place, and I would imagine that generally the leaders of all the other cults would be equally opposed to the idea of people having the good bits of a religious ceremony without the rest of it.
Just FYI everybody, a humanist ceremony is free from religion too (though humanist officiants are more likely to use their own discretion).

GrimmaTheNome · 27/01/2011 16:27

So I was right - petty narrowmindedness.

'Its our ball, you can't play with it, ner ner ner ner ner'.

narkypuffin · 27/01/2011 16:28

If any of that's wrong I blame all of you for not editing Wiki properly.

jugglingjo · 27/01/2011 16:30

YANBU

Yeh, I agree OP !

And with the person who said, who makes up all these silly rules ?

I'm a Quaker, and Quakers recently decided to work towards treating same-sex and opposite sex relationships and marriage services equally.

ie. to make marriage and civil partnership more equal.

( I hope that's a fair description of what happened Smile )

Amongst other things it seemed unfair that same sex couples couldn't include a religious aspect in their ceremony even when that was what they would have strongly wanted.

People getting married need all the inspiration they can get !

It's ridiculous that someone has decided it's not allowed !

What century are we in ? Hmm

claig · 27/01/2011 16:31

yes, to maintain their sphere of influence, otherwise they might lose authority in that realm.

cantspel · 27/01/2011 16:33

GrimmaTheNome No it more of a case of it's their ball and you are not allowed to play with it in our garden.

The church has No issue with you singing hymns at any time. It is the law that says NO.

marantha · 27/01/2011 16:35

Yes, I revise my view from to 'yabu' to 'yanbu'. They're only SONGS when all is said and done for goodness sake.
Lots of people who are atheists can be 'cultural Christians' i.e. not believe in god but enjoy hymns and visiting churches.
Silly rule that needs doing away with.

Original poster
MrsHenryWood · 27/01/2011 16:36

But it was the Church's vested interest that created the law in the first place...

OP posts:
ViolaTricolor · 27/01/2011 16:36

YANBU. Certain writings are religious because religious people see them that way. To other people they are still texts which they might find meaningful. They don't belong to anyone and I do not believe that it's right for the state to police the interpretation or use of those texts.

GrimmaTheNome · 27/01/2011 16:36

From the information narky kindly provided, it was the church that had the issue - at the time I would imagine they had undue influence over the making of laws.

Lonnie · 27/01/2011 16:38

What do they do if your first name is 'God'?

OMG Tea everywhere laughs

jugglingjo · 27/01/2011 16:40

Well said, Tricolor !

SparkleSoiree · 27/01/2011 16:41

I got married in a church first time. My second marriage had to be a civil ceremony to make the marriage legally binding. We married and celebrated it at the same location. Nine months later we had a private blessing in church and it was literally DH and myself with two friends and our children.

I have to admit at being baffled at people wishing to marry in a religious setting if they are not religious. During the ceremony you are worshipping God as well as getting married and you do that by praise, prayer and singing. If you don't believe in God it would seem really strange to act in a way which is a complete lie in your eyes. Why would you want to start your married life like that?

Confused
Lonnie · 27/01/2011 16:44

*Jerusalem was originaly a poem but i dont know if the reference to God would rule it out.

But it is hardly very weddingy anyway.*

We sang Jerusalem at our wedding Dh loves it I like it it was the only English song done (we married in Denmark)

i see nothing unweddingy about it Smile

marantha · 27/01/2011 16:44

Yes, but there is a difference between religious ceremonies and a few hymns, isn't there?
I can't even believe I thought they should not be allowed, they're only songs!

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