that you shouldn't open a hotel if you only want straight married couples to stay in it?

[JoanofArgos]

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/14/christian-couple-barred-gay-couple-shut-hotel

Horrid old bigots, say I.

No, its because they choose to not equate civil partnership with marriage. It says on their site that they think marriage is one man and one woman. They automatically discriminate against gay couples.

Are you people seriously suggesting that in the 21st century it should be acceptable to treat gay people as less than straight people? That it should be legal to discriminate because you don't like what other people are?

I'm not talking about gay people or straight people, I'm talking about the wording the hotel owners used;

MARRIED.

If gay people cannot be "married" in the eyes of the law, then that's a problem of the law isn't it?

I think that...if it's their religion then it's their choice...their home and their business.

I wouldn't serve pork to Muslims for the same mark of respect....

According to the Bible, you are married once you've had sex. It doesn't say anything about about legal ceremonies, which are quite a modern invention.

Just thought I'd throw that one in.

Urm according to the bible doesn't the consummation of the marriage only apply to male/female couples and not homosexuals?

You can't seperate the two. And it wouldn't matter if we had gay marriage as well of or instead of civil partnership, if they state tehy only let married male/female pairs stay, which they do, that is discrimination.

It is not their home and their business if they are breaking the law. How can you not get that? What if they said no black people, they make us uncomfortable? Are you fine with that too?

The point is, scooby, they were just as married as they could be. Civil partnerships (and how good they are is a whole other issue) is, currently, seen by the govt etc as equivalent to marriage for gay couples. If the B&B owners refuse to accept civil-partnered couples, where they would accept married ones (even those not married in church, presumably), then it's because those couples are gay. Hence the whole discrimination thing.

JHHJ I have not engaged in hate speech on this thread.

Me pulling you up on the hugely offensive manner in which you compared homosexuality with bestiality and incest is not hate speech.

Honestly why do so many bigots want to have their cake and eat it? They want to express offensive and discriminatory viewpoints and have the rest of us say 'jolly good show' at the same time.

If you are a bigot - own it for fuck's sake and don't make things worse by being a hypocrite with an over developed sense of entitlement as well.

Example for the hard of thinking;

Person A : "I don't like being around black people with their primitive ways"

Person B : "Hold on a minute you can't say that, it's racist and could upset and hurt some black people." (Also it makes you look like a total tool)

Person A : "How dare you - you are discriminating against me. I have the right to air offensive racist views that make me look like a total tool and offend and upset whole groups of people."

Person B : "Goodbye please don't interact with me again."

HTH.

Hester... Thank you for your reply. I don't know what a 'straw man' is?

To answer your post, when I was referring to 'shoving it in your face', I specifically meant the parades. Although, from what you've said about acceptance issues, I can understand why the parades are important.

My point about 'character' and some peoples' raison d'etre was just that if I'm made up of say 100 characteristics, my sexuality would be 100th on the list. For some gay people, it seems that being gay is the thing that most defines their character/personality. Everything comes back to that and perhaps it's that that rankles sometimes. I don't know if you know what I mean but I'm hoping that you do.

I have colleagues and friends who are gay. When one of my colleagues and I first started working together, (we were both new) she told me that she was gay and asked me not to tell our boss or anyone in the company. I wouldn't have anyway but was quite astonished that she would have been thought worse of perhaps, if they had known. I'm glad that there's a law in place to protect employees in the workplace; it's nobody's business anyway.

She and I get on so well; as I do with other gay colleagues and friends. We chat about their partners and really, it's quite gender neutral if that makes sense, our partners are just our partners.

Another one of your comments really struck a chord with me... the one where you said that you couldn't even refer to your partner, take extra steps when buying a bed or sofa making sure that you didn't say anything that would bring your lifestyle to light. That's truly terrible. I have never thought about it from that point of view. Probably because I've never had to; my lifestyle is considered 'the norm' I suppose and therefore I don't have to overthink how others might perceive it.

I came back to post because I've really been thinking about this issue and because you haven't been vitriolic in your postings, just fervent and I can well understand that.

I genuinely don't think I'm a homophone but I do accept that I'm opinionated and don't understand the ramifications from the 'other side' because I'm not 'there' myself. I can be very oblivious to other people's activities and lifestyles; if I like somebody, I just do.

Anyway, thank you for posting your replies, they're thought-provoking. :)

You're welcome, LyingWitch. It was nice of you to respond

That's a really nice post Lying :) You might want to read Lesley's post too because it's also really thought-provoking. It's so easy to forget how fucking shite life has been for gay and lesbian people until really recently (and still is if this thread is anything to go by).

It both saddens and infuriates me that people have attitudes like JhhJ. To openly admit you would not employ an openly gay person because you would feel uncomfortable? What the hell is that about. And you would be 'dissapointed' if any of your kids had 'turned' out Gay?! Well lets hope they are not too scared to come out, and are living a lie because Mother is too much of a bigot to accept it.

It is simply not acceptable to run a B&B and refuse 2 men a double room simply because they are not technically married in the eyes of the law.

I am coming late to this thread cos I don't think anyone has mentioned that there is evidence that the Bulls did NOT require heterosexual couples to be married and did not ask for proof of marriage. Not pertinent to the case but there it is

I am disgusted by some of the homophobia on display here. It makes me feel ill.

I went to a bit of London Pride last year and the float I remember was the Age Concern one full of gay men and women who were old enough to live in a world that outlawed them and I wondered if they ever thought they would ever live to dance and sing through the streets of London proud of their sexuality as thousands of people cheered them on. Made me right misty eyed it did.

(FWIW none of them were naked and wrapped in pink cling film. Though a good deal of plaid and slacks were involved.)

And to add to the people who have said about straight people being discriminated against. Not true. Been to GAY and Paradise Factory loads of times. In my old company (entertainment conglomerate) we had a volunteer group called OUT@(company name) for 'gay, lesbian, transgender and friends) and our Women's Network admitted men. Cos it's the law innit.

I will admit I a a bigot if these people criticizing the Christian couple also admit they are bigots as they are criticizing them for their beliefs and because they different then their own.

I admit I could not probably tell if someone was gay if they come for an interview. HOwever our business belongs to use, I share my life with the people who work with me, they are my friends who come round to our house, it is not some PLC.

If we were talking about Travel Lodge or Trust House Forte then I would say the ruling was right but it wasn' it was against two Christian people who believed homosexuality is wrong

As for comparing homosexuality to bestiality ad incest, I was not. I was making a point that in UK law these are illegal so the law does allow discrimination o the grounds of sexuality. Both beastility and incest are legal in many countries

If any of my children are gay then I am glad I brought them up well enough to respect other peoples views and keep it from me

Would I still be a bigot if i said I believe wife swapping is wrong and would not want to work with such a person who indulges in such sexual activity, would that still make me a bigot?

How about "an arse" JHHJ? Does that suit better than bigot? Admitting that you'd rather your children lived a lie to suit you, pretty much makes a person a candidate to feature in the Ladybird Book of Pondlife as far as I'm concerned. You really think your sensibilities, which could be paraphrased as "pretend gay people don't exist, or at least if they do, far far away from me", should be prioritised over your own children's right to share their loved ones and celebrations with you? Truly incredible.

And by "these people criticising the Christian couple", who you want to call themselves bigots, I assume you mean the entire British legal system?

ElephantsAndMiasmas you sound such a lovely person, the sort who goes through life not caring who they hurt as long as they get their way.

If you say so, JHHJ. Feel free to report my post. Perhaps "arse" was a bit strong, but "rear of the year" seemed too generous.

And I don't think I get to "get my way", on this. Although, if you're offering to be my gay rights fairy godmother, I'll have an end to discrimination against gay people now, please.

Cheers.

I not old enough to remember when being gay was a crime, but I am old enough to recall a time when the News of the World used to expose gay men in mostly government jobs, MPs, top civil servants and they used to have to quit

I do not get what gives the right to some gay people to now demand others accept their sexuality. I would have thought given the persecution of gay people in days that have now gone they would understand this and respect other peoples beliefs and views

As I see it, the circle has come round and homosexuality is being forced onto others.

Example of which is the reaction of ElephantsAndMiasmas and others to my opinion and feelings, must be a bigot because I do not share their stance.

JHHJ: 'I hate seeing same sex people kissing and being romantic. I disagree with the civil partnership and allowing gay people to adopt. .. can not help my feelings any more then people can help being gay I guess and feel it is just as unreasonable to hide them or to put them aside then ask a gay person to put aside theirs.'

It really isn't the same though is it? It would be a really big deal for a gay person to conceal their partner, and not a big deal for you to conceal your bigotry. Unless you deal with situations in the following way...

Your child's school: who is the other parent to your child?
JHHJ: my bigotry and hatred of gay people kissing.

The hospital: who is your next of kin?
JHHJ: my repulsion at seeing gay people being romantic.

Your employer: what family members should be included on your pension form?
JHHJ: my homophobia and disagreement with gay people adopting.

Your child's teacher: do you want to make two mothers' day cards?
JHHJ's child: Yes, I need one for my Mummy and one for her hatred of openly same sex couples.

The child tax credit phone line operator: what is the name and income of your partner?
JHHJ: homophobia has no income.

JHHJ's friend: why are you crying?
JHHJ: my homophobia has had an accident and is injured.

ElephantsAndMiasma I will trump your 'arse' and call JHHJ an absolute twat of the highest order.

No gays or wife swappers in your business? I think you need to concentrate on how an employee actually does their job and stop worrying about what they do outside of work FFS.

I very much hope that your kids aren't gay for their sake as living a lie, terrified your own Mother will disown you does not make for a happy life.

I am very glad I don't know anybody like you in RL.

JHHJ you did compare homosexuality with incest and bestiality. Stoning women to death because they have been raped is legal in some countries, but I fail to see what that has got to do with your bigotry.

In the UK incest is considered deviant behaviour (there are good reasons for this). Homosexuality is not deviant behaviour, indeed it is not even 'behaviour' it is a sexuality and a sexual identity just the same as heterosexuality.

Now for your ridiculous statement;

"I will admit I a a bigot if these people criticizing the Christian couple also admit they are bigots as they are criticizing them for their beliefs and because they different then their own."

I am not criticising the Christian couple for being Christians. I'm not criticising them for their homophobia. I'm criticising them for acting on their homophobia within a professional context and breaking the law and treating paying customers in a discriminatory manner which is against the law.

I couldn't care less what these people's personal beliefs are - they are utterly irrelevant.

As for this offensive and homophobic piece of bigotry;

"I do not get what gives the right to some gay people to now demand others accept their sexuality. I would have thought given the persecution of gay people in days that have now gone they would understand this and respect other peoples beliefs and views."

This is hate speech. Have a . People like you are dangerous. We have anti-discrimination laws in this country in an attempt to keep things civilised and protect minorities from this sort of ignorance and bigotry.

So in the eyes of the Christian god people are married if they've had sex. Oh well, that probably means 90% of adults in this country are bigamists.
Tell me if a person is raped, are they then married to their rapist?
Or a man cheats on his wife, is he then married to his mistress?
What a * joke!
See this couple allowed UNmarried heterosexuals into their hotel?
Hypocrites.

The truth is this: we MUST have judges in this country because people like these hoteliers will have you married because you've had a rumble in the bedroom. (For all those who criticise judges as 'left wing' take note of this).
People can think freely what their interpretation of marriage is- it's their mind, but those interpretations cannot be allowed to have any credence in law.
There would be anarchy.
There must be a set out list of rules regarding marriage and what constitutes it- and, guess what, there is!

In my view, a civilly-partnered couple are MARRIED, while a heterosexual couple (even if they've cohabited 20 years with 3 children are in no way shape or form married).
Because marriage is a formal legal arrangement you've either undertaken or you haven't.

Anyone else here part of the 90%?

@JHHJ Why are some people (mainly people of religious faith I feel) so obsessed with what other consenting adults do in the bedroom? It is perverted and prurient. This is what you do if a colleague wife-swaps in their spare time - you mind your own business.

FWIW I worked in Soho for 6 years and by Canal St Manchester for 2 and I don't think I have ever seen two men kissing in public. If I have, I haven't really noticed.

And 'private' business has nothing to do with it. I am a private individual who employs someone - I am subject to the same employment laws as a conglomerate with regard to sex and race discrimination, unfair dismissal, sick pay, holidays etc.

Marantha - this chart may be of interest with regard to what the Bible says about rape