To wonder why dog owners get offended because mychild is scared of their dog?

[hoovercraft]

My ds is really really scared of strange dogs. Its something thats quite upsetting and we dont know where it has come from. We are trying our best to work with it.

Went out yesterday to a local park/woods and there were many dogs. Ds was almost crippled with fear when he saw a dog approaching...we held his hands and reassured him.One barked and he cried. We hadnt realised he would be so scared tbh but the barking dog set us up for a looooong walk back to the car that day.

What I dont understand is why dog owners get so angry because my child is scared. We made no comment about them...heck, its a park, they are allowed to walk their dogs ffs. I even went overboard telling him not to worry when most dogs went past.....it was a lovely dog, a happy tail wagging dog, it wont hurt you etc and all we got were glares and rather nasty "it wont HURT you know!".
Whats that all about then?

No problem, I'll just follow my cat around all day, trespassing onto people's property and collect every shit it does then, yeah?

Hmm let me contemplate that. Yes i really want to be holding up a banner saying ban dogs when 1. local MP is a known dog lover, 2 it is likely to get me killed round these parts were the nasty looking dog is deamed essential society status symbol.

Tbf there seems to be getting a good legislative balance in a lot of places. What i find is the problem is owner attitude and complete incomprehension that not everyone views their beloved animal in the same way. And unfortunately you cant legislate against that.

No, YANBU! My daughter is scared of dogs as am I. Dog owners have "forced" me to have their huge dogs on my lap, yes lap, saying it's gentle and all that. Same with those Staffordshire bull terriers "it won't bite"...etc. I like dogs, but not near me, unless I sanction it!

Lair, dog bans/controls are up to the local authority, not the MP. You can do a great deal of lobbying (v successfully) without needing a placard. Letters, meetings with Councillors, with officers, gathering information from other park users, photos, videos of loose dogs etc.

Of course you can't legislate against stupid owners, but you can lobby for change in your local area.

We have dog free area's for the dcs to play in. They brought in the legislation about no dogs being walked by one person/person in a group. This is all working. What isnt working is the little darlings with their satus dogs who havent been given the benefit of the training that the breed requires, who seem to think it is ok to let their dogs jump all over you and hurl abuse at you about the dog being perfectly safe if you deam it best to cross the road to move away from them.

My problem isnt with dogs, it is with the dog owners. And in particular who dont provide the training that all dogs require in order to be well rounded animals; or those who dont respect the right of others not to want to be hounded/occupy the same path as their animal.

Dont get me started about people who bring their animals to school and leave them tied up outside so that you physically cant get past/into school grounds without having to be in close contacted with the animals. But there is no legistlative power that covers public pathways. You can legislate for parks but you cant say no dogs on x road.

Wouldnt a power like that need a specific main piece of legislation rather then a bilaw?

ditavonteseed why is it offensive? It is purely a 3 year old's interpretation. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that, you may think it is a stunning dog but my son's literal interpretation may be that it looks like a rat or rodent. To be fair I have seen dogs that have similar features to rodents. You must be oversensitive if have an issue. It is nothing like someone saying your child is ugly. As you will hurt a child's feelings saying that and the parents whose looks it has inherited and that is RUDE! Just to reiterate a dog does not feel similar hurt and it hasn't inherited its looks from the owner.

Erm - all those who want dogs banned from certain areas, think about this.

Dogs are already required to be on-lead (under control) when on the pavements. The dogs you see off-lead near busy roads for example are almost all owned by irresponsible eejits. These people simply ignore the existing legislation.

Create more dog-free areas or on-lead restrictions and you punish the responsible owners, and the irresponsible ones continue to behave badly.

The way to deal with idiot owners is to require all owners to take their dogs to regulated training classes so they learn about responsible ownership. Not to punish the vast majority who ensure their dogs are under control and not bothering anyone.

Scuttlebutter - dogs aren't allowed on the beaches here between May and September (after 8am) and I think that's fine. I don't want dogs banned from beaches - I love seeing them tearing along, having a laugh.

But I don't think people should let their dogs off the lead if they won't come back to them when called.

I agree with laska - unfortunately this another one of those MN disconnect things - all the dog owners on mn will be responsible the people causing the problems wont be represented on here.

We have dog free dc areas here that are ignored and a couple of people that insist on walking their dogs in the brand new free tennis courts instead of the massive park next door - all very odd - even if/when they pick up the poo its a clay court which will leave a skidmark - its all incomprehensible to me.

I wish they could enforce the dog bans on beaches more effectively though. We spend a lot of time on the beach, it seems the dogs can't read the notices.

I get really cross when they piss on my sandcastles (has happened several times!)

I don't think the OP is unreasonable.
On two separate occasions a dog (not the same one) tried to bite DD in her pushchair - she was a baby, so young she couldn't walk at that point. She was not pointing at them, touching them, or making any noise. On only one occasions was the owner there - and she said nothing although her dog (on a rotalead) had only just missed nipping DD (we heard the teeth click, as it missed - thankfully DD moved just in time).
On the estate we lived on, dogs were regularly roaming without owners - just let out by themselves to poo, no proper walk. Some of these dogs were large.

Since then we have moved to another estate, in a local village. The owners here usually keep their dogs on leads, and if they think you are nervous will actually bring their dog to heel. No comments are made by them about the friendliness of their dog(s)!

I have been grateful for that. DD has gone from being so terrified of any dog, she would literally climb up me or run into the road if I didn't pick her up quickly enough.
This is almost two years on - she is still initially uncomfortable with dogs in enclosed spaces (eg indoors). However, she is at the point where if she wants to, she will ask an owner if she can stroke their dog. She can quite happily walk past a dog on the same side of the street, which was unthinkable where we used to live. At some friends homes she is happy to pet their dogs. We didn't do anything radical, just let her take things at her pace, NOT anyone elses.

FIL makes me laugh as he says we should get a dog to 'speed her along' as it were. I think that would set her back. Plus, the next time he says this, I will point out that he does actually have a dog phobia, and that if her persists I shall start to suggest he takes his own advice!

Just read back a couple of pages & would like to make a couple more points:

When DD was almost bitten she was not making any noise (she was an usually quiet baby - well, unless it was 3am! ) or flailing.
She does not like loud or unexpected noises or actions herself, so getting her to understand that animals don't either, hasn't been difficult. We like getting out for long walks and she knows that if we're v.noisy we'll miss most of the interesting wildlife (before anyone thinks we're really weird, we do still talk, just quietly).

We have taught her to always ask if she wants to pet someone's dog, and that she must not make a fuss if they refuse - she respects that. This is partly because one person we know has a rescue dog, and because of it's past experience is terrified of children. This poor owner has had real problems with children grabbing/touching without asking and being noisy/jumping near her dog. Asking children round here not to touch is a bit of an issue apparently (I'm told they just ignore the owner!) - even though I'm told the local Primary makes a point of teaching children basic dog awareness, including 'do not touch unless you have asked the owner'. Maybe they should change it to 'do not touch, unless you have asked, and the owner has agreed'!

I don't think most dog owners believe that other people love the dogs of strangers. It is simply that in our society we allow other people to do things that bring them pleasure, even if we find it inconvenient and it carries slight risks to society as a whole (and it is a slight risk; there are more child injuries from balloons than dogs).

If a dog bites my child, it is ultimately my problem. Yes, the dog may be put down and some kind of action taken against the owner, but that is rather a small problem next to a child who is scarred for life.

So as it is in our best interests to protect our children, and we cannot control or predict the behaviour of someone else's dog, it is pointless saying that it is the owner's problem. There will always be irresponsible owners. We should take what steps we can to protect our children basic safety when a dog approaches, stand still or turn your back, don't make eye contact and so on. I think a 6 year old is old enough to learn that, but it won't happen straight away and dog owners should not be annoyed by other people's fear.

As for dog free areas, I think they are a very good idea. Expecting dogs to be on a load in every other public area is not realistic.

MillyR... A dog being put down isn't a 'small problem'.

If my dog were to be put down, it would absolutely destroy me.

This is why I never let a child get near my dogs, as opposed to the other way around.

It isn't just the responsibility of dog owners, it is so much about the parent. Countless times I've had children bound over to us with parents saying.. "stroke them nicely" or some such thing that clearly shows they are encouraging this action.

I would never let my daughter walk up to a strange dog. (although, at 3 months, She's hardly likely to! :))

I think this is exactly the same mentality as people who can't understand why everyone isn't smitten by their kids. Not your problem.

I am a dog-owner btw. And a parent. And adore my offspring and dog. I just realise that other strange coves may not accept their invincible superiority to all others.

perfectstorm you talk sense

Not sure the words CRIPPLE and HANDICAPPEDsould be banded about so easily here esp when we're talking about a child's fear of dogs and esp seeing as some of us MNs have children who are unable to walk and do have a have LD I'm not trying to be over pc here but just feel that the use of these words is slightly insensitive and offensive ...carry on as you were.

salsmum the terms used were crippled, not cripple, and handicap, not handicapped.

"- but a six year-old crying just because one barks is more of a handicap than a natural reaction." A handicap means a disadvantage - it is not a derogatory word in and of itself and is a term used widely in sport. There is a big difference between using the word handicap to refer to a disadvantage, and referring to a disabled person as handicapped, which would be insensitive and offensive.

"Ds was almost crippled with fear when he saw a dog approaching..." Crippled by fear is a commonly used expression and not offensive at all. Here's a dictionary definition:
: to deprive of capability for service or of strength, efficiency, or wholeness

The use of the word in this context is completely different from calling a disabled person a cripple.

Are you perhaps oversensitive, or were you being wilfully obtuse?

I've been following this thread but haven't wanted to dive into the usual polarised debate between dog lovers and haters (of which there seem to be so many ). But hey...now I'm here...

Talking of wilfully obtuse, the phrase was uppermost in my mind at Goldenbear's refusal to acknowledge that insulting something that is obviously dear to someone, is rude - whether the thing is a child, a pet or their new skirt. To compare a dog to an animal that most people regard as vermin, is rather rude, and any polite person would gently explain that to their child.

As to the OP, I am astonished that any dog owner would be offended or angry in the situation described, and owners like that are surely few and far between? You sound remarkably unlucky to have encountered so many of them.

There have been some really unpleasant and ignorant anti dog comments on here, which I don't think are even worth responding to. I agree completely with the people who are saying that it is dangerous not to teach your child how to behave safely around dogs - small creatures that scream, flap and run are much more likely to trigger a dog's prey drive than a child who stands still. I realise, though, that a phobic reaction is not a controllable one.

If I had a child with a phobia of dogs, then I'd get therapy to deal with it, sharpish, because to me that would be a dangerous situation. With my DD, the problem has always been the opposite - she wants to go and meet every dog she sees, which is also potentially dangerous, and I've put in a lot of effort since she was tiny, to train her in how to interact safely with dogs.

I have a spaniel, and walk her almost exclusively off lead - occasionally in the local park, but usually on commons, nature reserves etc. She has no interest in approaching people, but if I see someone who is obviously scared then I will recall her. All dogs should be on a lead when walking of pavements. I've loved dogs all my life, but when DD was a baby I became incredibly cautious about dogs because babies/toddlers are at the level of the dog's face, and because children move in unpredictable ways that could startle or scare a dog. I think caution and care around dogs is very sensible, but some of the attitudes on this thread are absurd and unsafe.

I couldn't care less if people don't like my dogs and don't want to be near them. One is on the lead all the time and one is not interested in going near anyone else, human or dog.

What I do object to is individuals who are obviously scared/phobic screaming if my dog is within 8 feet of them (which my dogs have a right to be, in a park or similar - as long as they are not actively bothering anyone which they don't - the dog who is off lead is not remotely interested in going near people). It scares my dogs, and I don't want to hear it, thanks.

I was once walking my dogs in a park when my younger dog was still just a puppy of about 6 months - very small and nonthreatening, and was not doing anything other than walking nicely with me - and a group of children who were playing a ball game in the middle of a path ( I thought paths were for walking on, there was plenty of grass surrounding, but not the point) started literally shrieking as my dogs approached while the two mothers sitting on the bench nearby did nothing to stop them from acting in this way. They weren't making any attempt to move away from my puppy, they were just howling like banshees, scaring my puppy who had done nothing but mind her own business, and causing her to run and hide behind the bench the two mothers were sitting on. Of course the mothers looked as though they were about to have a seizure so obviously the fear of dogs that the children were displaying (well, I assume it was a fear of dogs, although I can't be sure, their behaviour was more akin to wild animals frankly) had come from the parents, which is such a shame, and completely unnecessary. If I was scared of teachers, would I teach my child to develop a phobia of teachers? No, because it is not healthy or in their interest. (Sorry, OP, this particular rant isn't aimed at you or your child, I understand that you don't want him to be this way, I am just illustrating the point that there is an appropriate way to react to fear, and this is not it.)

My friend's daughter who is 11 has a serious phobia of dogs and even she doesn't behave in this way. She has been taught to accept that she has to share the planet with dogs and that inevitably she will come across them. She manages to act like a rational human being when passing dogs in the street etc. It is for her own safety. People who act like wailing lunatics, throwing their hands in the air, etc, when they see a dog in their vicinity are putting themselves at risk by acting this way.

I am sorry your child has a phobia of dogs. I think it would be sensible to try and work through this using therapy (this is what my friend did with her daughter) so that he can see a dog without crying etc, as it will be better in the long term for him. Because his behaviour around dogs is unpredictable, this makes the dog potentially unpredictable. Luckily my dogs have never bitten a child for screaming in their faces, but a dog with a poor temperament, or who is sick or scared, may do, and it isn't worth the risk.

This really hacks me off too. DS1 is allergic to dogs so when dog owners shout over "dont worry, he's friendly" as they saunter over, while their(off-lead) mangy mutt is sniffing round DS1 and trying to lick him, I'm always tempted to holler back "I'm not if his face swells up like a balloon" Pricks. Also while we are on the subject - dog owners that let their dogs crap anywhere and just leave it also get on my tits, as do those that collect the poop in a bag but then just chuck the bag in a hedge?!?!