What on earth is wrong with vaccinating children ffs?

[poshsinglemum]

I'm sure this has been done before a million times.

A friend of mine who has gone all woo recently isn't vaccinating her dd because some quack gave a lecture on the evils of vaccinating. My ex boyfriends mum was a complete quack/chrystal healer and begged me not to vaccinate against typhoid, encaphalitus, rabies etc when I went to the third world. She gave me a homeopathic kit. Needless to say I got the jabs anyway.

I think that the ''evidence'' not to vaccinate is coming from the woo crew and is fuelled by paranoid conspiracy theories concerning the pharmeceutical industry. I am not completely convinced by the industry myself but I'd rather take a chance on them than my dd getting polio etc.

I just read the MIL thread but I have been meaning to discuss this for ages.

Ha ha -- nice to see the nobs have disappeared when faced with good hard evidence and cogent argument.

I only responded to the OP, who seems to have raced off in a fit of pique after being comprehensively proved wrong.

my feeling is that vaccination is like playing Russian roulette and I am just trying to figure out which gun has less bullets, the jabs or the diseases.
this is why I feel we need more choice when it comes to how we vaccinate. I have done the research and would like to.make my choices based on it. for instance, cases world wide of diptheteia in 2009 were 857. deaths from whooping cough the same year were 195,000. in the case of diptheria, there is more threat of harm from the vaccine than there is of catching the disease, opposite with whopping cough. I would therefore like to choose to vaccinate against whopping but not diptheria. unfortunately, we are not allowed to pick and choose under the current system.

Yo haven't proven anything, you're simply offering an alternate, and your chosen point of view.

As for myself, I didn't sink to calling people nobs (sic) nor say anything instructing people to change their minds. I simply stated what I intend to do and linked to an example article.

I read your links, btw. I see nothing in them which explains the profit Wakefield would have generated with the alternative vaccines etc, nor an explanation and to why he would not increase his test pool to 150 participants.

Woo woo people do exist. I asked the nurse at my surgery whether it was OK to give DS two overdue boosters at once and she spontaneously suggested that I consider homeopathy instead . A nurse friend also seriously considered homeopathy instead of vaccines for her DS until her mother told her to stop being silly - clearly a well-thought through position there.

There are sites on the Internet where you can easily find people who haven't vaccinated for "Woo" reasons. Some of them also insist that bacteria & viruses don't cause the diseases for which there are immunisations (something like eating non-"traditional" foods does cause these diseases, though ).

Very freaky thinking.

The people I've known IRL who didn't vaccinate had much more solid reasons, generally I can respect their decision even if it's not one I would take.

Loads of older people in our extended families who were permanently damaged by catching a disease for which a jab now exists.

When discussing my DD's marked regression with a top neurologist he asked if it was linked to bowel problems BTW, so the link/Wakefield's study is not just "woo woo"

All my children are fully vaccinated even though my two youngest have autism (neither caused nor made worse by the MMR incidentally) At six weeks old ds3 contracted whooping cough and was very ill as a result.
The source of ds's infection was never traced probably because I had to insist the GP's swab for pertussis because I remembered my sister having it.
Thankfully ds survived but the person who didn't vaccinate the child who infected my ds should have at least quarantined their child rather than putting mine at risk.

The thing is that people forget Nelsons etc are big business as well- pharma companies are "evil capitalists" but someone's making a shit load of money from Rescue Remedy as well. Great business model- get water, put in vials, divide vials into piles and label as cure all for various ailments. Buy super yacht.

South park did a great episode on this- it was called "Cherokee hair tampons"

I'm not going to get into a bunfight with someone who seems intent on coming across as sarcastic and rude. I have better things to do with my time, so I'm off.

Oh yes, it has been absolutely proved the the sobres for concern are more substantial than claimed in the nobby op, with its nobby references to woo and quacks, and its lazy reference to paranoia, and her pathetic inability to either read or understand a single word on the subject.

The op was sarcastic and rude, but you didn't mind that, did you? Hypocrite.

There's nothing wrong with vaccinating your children, there's also nothing wrong with other people not vaccinating their children.

On the MIL thread this morning, I made a unnecessary personal insult to someone and I'd would like to apologise for that now to the person if your on this thread. (It was early and i'd been up all night with a 17week old baby) But that's no excuse.

However if someone really believes that not vaccinating is child abuse but taking someone else's children to get vaccinated without their parents permission is not child abuse then something has seriously gone wrong somewhere.

Radiator you are Nice.

"My children will NOT be sacrificial lambs for anyone else's children. Sorry. I am that selfish - my kids come FIRST, everyone else is not my priority. My kids' brains and bodies are too valuable to me to sacrifice for the theoretial risk to someone else's unvaccinated / vaccinated (then why bother, if they dont work??) children.

That moral high ground doesn't work, sorry."

Far more eloquently put than I could and very much how I feel too. I'd rather we took our chances in a largely vaccinated society than took a positive risk by having alien substances deliberately injected into our systems. I have no faith in the motives of the pharma industry - having a strong and active interest in animal rights has shown me many, many things which gives me every reason to doubt them and to despise the methods by which they develope these vaccinations.

Oh, I am not lentil-weavy and think homeopathy a load of woo tommy-rot too. And yes, if this country became as the US I would happily suddenly find god or home ed in order to avoid vaccination being forced upon my children.

I get so fed up with (somepeople's) paranoia about research

ITS ALL A CONSPIRACY

yeah and the little green me are coming too

I also get annoyed at people saying their "research" when they mean googlin' a bit

Look, the point is that vaccination programmes are a victim of their own success. If certain diseases were more common then the balance of risk would tip in favour of the vaccination vs contracting the disease. As it is, parents have the luxury of choosing not to vaccinate knowing that most other people will and that incidence of said disease will be fairly low so chance of their kid catching it is low. If more people decide they want free range kids, then the incidence of the disease will rise and the risk profile will change- cue vacc rates will rise again. I don't blame people who don't want to vaccinate- wanting other people to take the risk so you can reap the benefits is just human nature. BUT, where the anti-vac lobby really go wrong is encouraging everyone else to do as they do. That's completely irrational.

As an aside, where I live, TB is fairly common (as it spitting up huge wads of mucus in the street) so babies are vaccinated at birth.They scream and it scars but you would be thought pretty mad not to take the vacc given the stats, but in the UK TB is much rarer so there would be a different risk profile. I'm sure if they decided to vacc at birth a large % would decline.

Well Wakefield attempted to scare Brian Deer by suing for libel. There was no financial risk to him, as his costs were fully met by the Medical Protection Society. Deer presented his evidence and Wakefield dropped his claim after two years and paid Deer compensation.

The 'Deer is evil' theme popped up on another vacc thread where one poster claimed that he had an erotic homosexual fascination with Wakefield which motivated his stories. On this thread he's been 'diagnosed' with a personality disorder and narcissism. He attracts a high level of purely personal abuse by Wakefield supporters, but being a 'nob' or twisted closet gay is not a rebuttal.

It's worth looking at his website, briandeer.com/ where you can see he's also exposed criminal behaviour by Pharmaceutical companies(eg the Merck cover up of Vioxx deaths). He's an investigative reporter who believes that Wakefield is a complete charlatan.