What on earth is wrong with vaccinating children ffs?

[poshsinglemum]

I'm sure this has been done before a million times.

A friend of mine who has gone all woo recently isn't vaccinating her dd because some quack gave a lecture on the evils of vaccinating. My ex boyfriends mum was a complete quack/chrystal healer and begged me not to vaccinate against typhoid, encaphalitus, rabies etc when I went to the third world. She gave me a homeopathic kit. Needless to say I got the jabs anyway.

I think that the ''evidence'' not to vaccinate is coming from the woo crew and is fuelled by paranoid conspiracy theories concerning the pharmeceutical industry. I am not completely convinced by the industry myself but I'd rather take a chance on them than my dd getting polio etc.

I just read the MIL thread but I have been meaning to discuss this for ages.

Ser what i mean leonie, it always happens on the vac threads. Proved them wrong and suddenly they have much better things to do than hang around Hgetting into bun fights. Yeah right.

Can I just agree with Radiator here. As I said before (page 2/3) I have a fully vac DS but don't see people who dont vac as selfish or irresponsible.

The only thing I really hae an opinion on in this argument is the fact that people who are stubborn on the fully ac side seem to think that if a child gets ill it's X's parents fault for not getting a vac... well no it's the fault of a chemical inside your child for not working as it should, surely that should be questioned?

And again why is that a child cannot just get ill without it being someone's fault? People are to scared to own up to the fact that they may just have fucked up (getting a vac that does'nt actually work) so they need to blame X for it instead...

We all have and make our own decisions, I don't feel the need to ram my opion down their throat until they feel bullied enough to change sides!

"Heh. That'd be me. I do not know what Deer's motivation is other than his self aggrandising all over the internet (see Deer's recent leftbrainrightbrain posts, wherein he boasts about how wonderful he is), but i can speculate, and no one can stop me."

Jesus, you are seriously mental aren't you? Is your hobby reading the 9/11 conspiracy sites?

On a different but somewhat related topic, I think it is worth pointing out that the statistics indicate that number of parents who do not vaccinate their children is very small. In other owrds, the vast majority of parents do get their child(ren) vaccinated. Even with the MMR, which has an 89% uptake, the infant vaccination rates are generally very high - 99% in some areas, with a national average of 96% uptake.

Many parents do their research and most of them do come to the conclusion that they would rather have their child vaccinated.

On the other hand, I can fully understand the reluctance of parents to vaccinate if they have witnessed what they believe is a loved one dying or suffering from a vaccination. Vaccines can and do cause problems - that's why countries like the US, Canada, UK in fact most developed countries, have vaccine damage compensation schemes.

I personally do not "believe" in homeopathy. I think it's a load of croc/cac but I do appreciate that some people have difference beliefs to my own and I have to respect that.

Many of the illnesses that had been almost eradicated due to the vaccination programmes over the years have crept back into the UK now due to mass immigration, and are rising again.

The pros of vaccination far outweigh the cons in my view and my children will be vaccinated.

Aviatrix- but you can only afford that level of indifference because vaccination rates are high.

If, say, smallpox still ravaged the population at random, you'd probably think differently. It's all about relative risk, and our view on the dangers of vaccinations (which the pro and anti lobbies are never going to agree on) will differ because of that.

However, I think we all have to be honest and admit that's what it basically comes down to.

I immunised our twins with everything that was offered at the time. in fact I paid for them to have the Gardasil vaccination as I believed it would offer them protection in later life. (They were too old for the government programme and I think the Gardasil vaccine was the better one anyway).

I would rather believe peer reviewed and tested science than some self appointed quack with a 'degree' from some tin-pot 'institute' far far away.

But that's just me, and the girls are fine and are not autistic.

Charlies mum, they weren't eradicated by vac, wot a load of old woo.

Leonie, because they have never looked into it and don't know what they are on about.

I am indiffernt to whether you vaccinate or not aviatrix but to pick up on a point someone made earlier that they don;t know anyone who hasn't vacced for good reasons - I amazed. I know many people locally who haven't for reasons no better than that it didn't seem like a good idea based on no analysis at all and some who are going the homeopathy route. There is a very low take up of vaccs in our area and I doubt very much that each person did their reading and made an informed decision before deciding.

In most cases the thought process seems to be - well if I vaccinate and there is a problme then it will be my fault for deciding to vacc but if they catch something(which no-one gets anymore anyway) and there is a problem then that won't be my fault just nature.

In otehr words the scary thing about vaccs is that you have to make a conscious decision to "hurt" your child for an uncertain benefit and with the added publicity about MMR that made it even scarier.

I looked after a brain-damaged teenager years ago who had suffered from measles and had an Aunt who was permanently disabled formpolio (and was the only child to survive in her street who caught it) so my assesment of the risks was more influenced by that than most.

Happy for everyone to make their own mind up (though I would be hapier to see some evidence on both sides that isn;t accompanied by a pile of mud-slinging) but don;t kid yourself that its a well though through decision for everyone - it certianly isn;t.

is it time to point out that it has NEVER been claimed by anyone with any modicum of intelligence that MMR causes autism?

Wakefield et al never claimed that, the Lancet never claimed it, NO ONE claimd that, except the popular press.

oh, and Brian Deer.

Well CM's right about TB. TB rates are rising again in the UK and immigration from new EU countries where the population doesn't have as high a vacc rate is one of the factors.

B&T - but the BCG has been removed form general vax schedule, hasn't it?

if there are so many concerns about TB rising, why is it not part of the scedule again (I know it is in affected areas, but if they were convinced vaccination culd erradicate, and pack of vaccination is what is causing the rise, you'd think it would be back in there as a standard across the board)

apologies if it has been added in - my 2 are out of the vax schedule, so I dont know what is routine anymore.

Silly example. TB is one of the mostró ineffective vac going and a disease well controlled by sanitation.

hey, appletrees - you ruined my punchline

but yes, a hopeless vaccine, which is why it was deemed ok to remove it form general schedule, I believe.

BTW bagged no it doesn't come downer to that for me. Or i would've had them done before talking them to developing cpuntries. You can't make that assumption at all.

BTW bagged no it doesn't come downer to that for me. Or i would've had them done before talking them to developing cpuntries. You can't make that assumption at all.

Mental? Oh my gosh how low can you go. Run out of anything more cogent?