What on earth is wrong with vaccinating children ffs?

[poshsinglemum]

I'm sure this has been done before a million times.

A friend of mine who has gone all woo recently isn't vaccinating her dd because some quack gave a lecture on the evils of vaccinating. My ex boyfriends mum was a complete quack/chrystal healer and begged me not to vaccinate against typhoid, encaphalitus, rabies etc when I went to the third world. She gave me a homeopathic kit. Needless to say I got the jabs anyway.

I think that the ''evidence'' not to vaccinate is coming from the woo crew and is fuelled by paranoid conspiracy theories concerning the pharmeceutical industry. I am not completely convinced by the industry myself but I'd rather take a chance on them than my dd getting polio etc.

I just read the MIL thread but I have been meaning to discuss this for ages.

I'm another one with a completely unvaccinated child.

But then I also have a child who was diligently taken to all her vax appointments, and now suffers ill health because of that.

I too do not know anyone who has not vaccinated for woo reasons.

I do know people who have not vaccinated for medical reasons.

The acceptin responsibility for spreading infection argument is risible.

Most people with vaccinated children sit back, smugly thinking they have done their bit, and don't actually look for signs of illnesses such as measles, because of course, their child has been vaccinated. they don't think that their child will be inthe small percentage that won't gain immunity from the vaccine (it is not a given that it will work)

people who have not vaccinated their children are, ime, more vigilant about checking for signs of illnesses, and more likely to stay away form soft play, toddler groups etc if their child has even a moderate cold, s they are well aware it could be building up to something else. whereas the parents of vaccinated children carry on abotu their life, because it couldn't possibly be anythign major, after all, little Johnny has had his jabs....

Ithink it is bubbleymummy who has some interesting stats on measles outbreaks in Saudi, where herd immunity is, iirc, at around 98% - how can that happen, if the jab is so effective? it's not just the unvaccinated children spreading that around, is it?

why would they do that, noddy?

The pressue to vaccinate is huge. The vast majority of people do. People can make their own choices, that is the sort of society we live in. STop bulldozing people in this way.

Totally agree with Hatti.

If there are genuine medical reasons for not vaccinating then fine, but if it is non-medical choice then parents should be insured in case their non-vaccinated child infects and leaves permanently disabled a child who is too young to be vaccinated.

I remember a thread on here not too long ago when a woman was being flamed for considering taking her child who had chicken pox to the park because of the risk to others. Choosing not to vaccinate where there is no medical reason not to is equally if not more irresponsible.

As for chocolatepuff's comment of: and its pointless to say "if everyone vaccinates then we could illiminate the disease, so its selfish not to" that would never happen so its a pointless arguement

What utter crap - Smallpox was declared to be completely eradicated in 1979 purely due to vaccination campaigns, so yes, if everyone who could vaccinate did, we probably would wipe out a lot of these diseases.

Hattie- 'until they can acces OUR free healthcare'

If in doubt blame the foreigners eh?!

its the way we vaccinate in this country that's a problem for me. I see no need to give so many inoculation so young. for example, the 5 in 1 that contains tetnius - do they really need immunity to it at 2mo? unless your giving your lo a rusty nail as a dummy, I don't see the point.
there is some very interesting research being done just now also showing that girls and boys react differently and the Dr doing the research is suggesting we look at how and who.we vax and maybe adjust accordingly rather than treat everyone the same (heard this on a program called the vaccine detectives o. a series called discovery on radio 4, you can listen to it on iplayer, very interesting)

What do you mean pointy I am asking a perfectly reasonable question.Is this solely about vaccination or conventional progressive medicine?

The parent of a school friend of mine made the decision not to vacinate her children, but then preached to other children about how irresponsible it was of our parents to vacinate us as children (I was 11 when I met this girl), which I do think was wrong. She was not happy when we were offered the Rubella vaccine at about 13 at school but her daughter actually wanted to be vaccinated and stood her ground, making the argument that her mum had had the right to make the decision to not vaccinate her as a young child but it was unfair of her to make a decision that could affect any future children she had so she wanted to have it done. Her mum eventually agreed.

To those who have not vaccinated, is there a point where you would allow your children to be vaccinated if they wish to be or will thay have to wait until they are legally allowed to consent for themselves?

chocolatepuff I think I may have more respect for your opinion if you hadnt said "so what if people dont vacinate" as there has been quite a frew personal stories here of the consequences of non vaccination, which should really answer your rather glib "so what" comment.

Agree with chilli.

Mine are vaccinated.

I don't really think the vaccines will last their lives and they'll keep having to get boosters. Mumps as an adult is absolutely hellish so I hope the vaccine they've had for that lasts and they don't get caught out. I'd rather they had that one as a child - 90% of cases are symptomless - but it's no longer about.

I think a lot of hysteria has been developed about these childhood diseases actually.

And as for vaccinations as a social act - that is a crock of sh*t too.

If you weren't comfortable with vaccinating your children for whatever reason, there is no way you'd do it for the sake of the community. Rubbish. Because your kids are at the top of your totem pole.

I can't stand some of the sanctimonious crap pro vaccination people come out with sometimes.

good to see there are people on here believing the utter shit that was printed in the Sun the other day re: Wakefield.

noddy - if, god forbid, either of my girls ends up contracting an illness, and further having complications as you describe, why would I refuse treatment?

that is not at all the same as declining a vaccination.

would you also expect peole who had lined up for the jab, but it had not taken, or whose immunity had worn off to not be treated?

that is, quite frankly a ridiculous argument.

just because I do not want to line dd2 up for all but certain damage (she has a mitochondrial dysfunction) form a jab, does not mean I refuse all medical treatment for her

I would assume it is just vaccination for most of those who don't vaccinate.

Most medicine is to help people who are already ill, to alleviate suffering. Some people think they have caused suffering to a well child by vaccinating. I would assume that's the main difference.

its the way we vaccinate in this country that's a problem for me. I see no need to give so many inoculation so young. for example, the 5 in 1 that contains tetnius - do they really need immunity to it at 2mo? unless your giving your lo a rusty nail as a dummy, I don't see the point.
there is some very interesting research being done just now also showing that girls and boys react differently and the Dr doing the research is suggesting we look at how and who.we vax and maybe adjust accordingly rather than treat everyone the same (heard this on a program called the vaccine detectives o. a series called discovery on radio 4, you can listen to it on iplayer, very interesting)

That is why i asked!Because I was wondering if it was all conventional treatment or just vaccines.

lazylula - I will be happy for my children to choose to be vaccinated if they have thoroughly read up all the info, evaluated it, taken into account their own personal medical circumstances, and come to a balanced decision.

when they can do that, they can make their own choice.

I will not let them be pressured into it "because everyone does" or "because X says I should"

everyone is not them. and X does not know everything about them.

I'll vaccinate mine when they're a bit older.

I'm not anti vaccination. I just don't want to do it when they're babies. Should any changes happen to them as a result of the vaccination, then I want to be able to monitor it and I won't be able to do that until they're older. Mostly because if anything did go wrong, the medical establishment would certainly not take me seriously if it was a baby - harder to prove.

Meanwhile, I do think a one size fits all approach to vaccination is hasty, not necessarily the right approach and there needs to be constant evaluation.

Damage through vaccines does happen.

There is a fund for it here. Which will be cut soon, I'm sure.

Hattifather: I agree completely! And that is the situation now. But it wouldn't be under the compulsory insurance scenario of your post of 09:09 - unless we introduced 3 weeks quarantine, and arranged a major catch up programme for those already here.

Actually I'd quite like a catch up programme. NHS policy requires me to rely in part on herd policy. My elder children are older than the introduction of the meningitis jabs.

mamadiva, I referred to another poster's comment that many of the unvaccinated were asylum seekers. I'm not blaming "Jonny foreigner" at all, merely commenting on someone elses posts. Also maybe a wry comment that in our country, we have choices, where in may countries, the choice is only available to those with funds to pay.

If you are referring to me re: Wakefield, I never read the Sun thank you - I was referring to articles such as this one:

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/213505.php

I might be wrong about this but I think in some countries like France children who have not been vaccinated aren't allowed to attend school

nomoreheels - if you are all interested in reading rebuttals to articles such as that I can provide links.

I suspect you are all to happy to just stick with one side of the (fictitious) story though.