Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be shocked 90% of Down's babies are aborted?

575 replies

Strictly · 14/01/2011 09:20

I was jut reading this sorry, yes it's from the DM!

and then did a little Googling and it turns out 91% of people told their baby has DS will have an abortion... Shock

I'm just astounded it's so high. I'm not making a judgment on the idea people might abort, but am very shocked that it seems almost universal to abort if told the baby has Down's.

I wonder what it is about that particular condition that 91% of people feel they could not live with? The rates for abortions of Cerebral Palsy babies for example is nowhere near as high. Is it just that Down's is easy to detect so the majority of people actually get the chance to decide?

OP posts:
2rebecca · 14/01/2011 09:21

I'm not.

Original poster
Strictly · 14/01/2011 09:23

Really?! I can hardly believe only 9 people in 100 will actually have a baby with Down's. I mean I thought it would be high, maybe 75%, but 91% seems like it's the expected norm.

OP posts:
RememberToPlaywiththeKids · 14/01/2011 09:27

That was the impression I was under when we were given a 1 in 5 risk - the medics approached it with an 'of cause you'll probably want to terminate' attitude.

I didn't realise it was possible to tell if a baby had cerebral palsy until after birth? I don't know much about CP at all - my impression is that it causes huge disabilities - is that what David Cameron's son had?

saffy85 · 14/01/2011 09:29

There wont be (true) statisics for aborted babies suffering from Cerebral Palsy- that happens during and after birth. So there is no way to detect it before birth.

I dont know if I'm shocked by the number of aborted DS babies tbh. I don't judge those who make that decision it can't be easy.

PissOrnMoiStick · 14/01/2011 09:29

I thought it was spina bifida which could be detected, not cerebral palsy.

I am too quite surprised at it being 90%, I would have thought the termination levels would be high, but not that high.

Absoltely no judgemnet on anyone who has terminated btw. I have no idea what that must be like and i am sure that it must be an excruitating decision to make.

Glitterknickaz · 14/01/2011 09:29

YANBU, but I'm not shocked.
Given some of the attitudes vocally expressed about additional needs that are out there in RL every day, and indeed exhibited here on these boards every day..... if you knew you'd have to face that would you?

I would btw. But it's hell to deal with.

WimpleOfTheBallet · 14/01/2011 09:30

I find that number shocking too...Downs is a huge challenge yes but 90%!!

I don't know anyone who would abort on those grounds...having a lot of friends who have concieved "older" it is something we have talked about.

LeQueen · 14/01/2011 09:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

aPixieInMyCaramelLatte · 14/01/2011 09:31

That is very high Sad

I have a cousin with down syndrome. We had an issue with one grandmother saying my aunty should "leave the Mongol in the hospital". But she soon got told where to stick her suggestion and all was forgotten. She's an awesome kid (well 19yrs old now).

My mw was quite surprised when I declined DS testing in boh my pregnancy's. For me it didn't matter but like everything only people themselves know what they can cope with and if they feel that they can't deal or cope with a child with DS then nothing anyone says or does will change that.

Still very upsetting statistics though.

Eglu · 14/01/2011 09:31

If it is only people who are told rather than all downs babies then not really surprising. If people choose to go through with the tests then it is not that surprising really. I choose not to even have the AFP blood test as I would not terminate a downs pg.

If you go through invasive procedures such as cvs or amnio, it is most likely because you are not willing to raise a SN child.

ChickensFlyingUnderTheRadar · 14/01/2011 09:32

YANBU. My eyebrows have hit my hairline too. I didn't think it would be that high. However, having never been in the situation of being told that my unborn baby has a genetic condition, I won't judge.

FabbyChic · 14/01/2011 09:32

Some only may be thinking of having one child, and if you had the choice to have a healthy baby or not which would you choose?

I had my children over 18 years ago and only then could you detect downs and spina bifida.

ApocalypseCheeseToastie · 14/01/2011 09:33

I'm not.

Of all the children with sn I know of thee are only 3 with downs I think it's because it's quite easily detected

altinkum · 14/01/2011 09:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Checkmate · 14/01/2011 09:38

Downs is (not alwasy) as serious an issue as people think it is. As more people with Downs live more visible lives (having jobs for example, often in the service industry) hopefully it will become better understood. Unfortunately, because so many fewer foetuses are now being allowed to live once Downs is detected, its unsure whether people will start seeing even more people with Downs around them.

I've got 2 friends, both with Downs, who met through their Doctor, and got married recently!

Another friend with Downs who I met at the library; he's a voracious reader. He particularly likes Georgette Heyer novels - he said he first heard of them through Stephen Fry mentioning them as a good read in an interview!

Knowing these people, who totally deserve to live their lives, and get the same ups and downs that the rest of us do, I didn't even get the test for Downs, as we wouldn't abort for it.

Changechange123 · 14/01/2011 09:43

I hate it when people say a downs baby. It's a baby with Down's Syndrome, not another kind of entity.

curlymama · 14/01/2011 09:43

I agree with Eglu, it is a surprising figure, but when you think about it, the people that wouldn't abort probably wouldn't have the tests in the first place. Seems a classic example of how statistics can be screwed to get the most sensational outcome.

BarbieLovesKen · 14/01/2011 09:44

Admittedly I am an extremely hormonal pregnant woman and am upset quite easily over the past few days but this made me burst into tears "We had an issue with one grandmother saying my aunty should "leave the Mongol in the hospital". Sad

OP, are you sure this is right?? I find this shockingly hard to believe Shock Sad

chandellina · 14/01/2011 09:45

I can see both sides of the decision, but the sad thing about so many aborted babies is that it means fewer live ones with Downs, and the condition becomes potentially more stigmatised, rather than being something commonly seen and accepted.

But to be fair to people making that choice, sometimes it is clear that there are major heart problems, etc., not just a mild version.

BarbieLovesKen · 14/01/2011 09:47

"the people that wouldn't abort probably wouldn't have the tests in the first place."

Hmm yes, I agree with curlymama, when I think about it, I have/ would refuse any testing whatsoever, dh and I have spoken about this and both feel theres absolutely no point whatsoever in any testing/ screening as, the results would be irrelevant to us personally.

EricNorthmansMistress · 14/01/2011 09:47

90% of people who know, not 90% of babies with Downs. Plenty of people will not have an amnio and will have no idea, probably because they wouldn't choose to terminate if they were given the option. This statistic is misleading and self selecting. The very fact of finding out whether your foetus has downs means you are more likely to terminate if it does (self selecting) and implies that all women are given the option (misleading)

I didn't have an amnio because it would have been a pointless risk, and I don't know anyone who would. I was recently having this conversation with friends and we agreed we'd consider termination for acute and life limiting conditions (SB, encephalopathy(sp) ) but not for downs or similar.

seeker · 14/01/2011 09:54

I'm not surprised.

At the risk of being flamed, I think that people who are being horrified by this are thinking about having a baby or a toddler with Downs. And they are thinking of babies and toddlers who are not severely affected by he syndrome.

They are not thinking of the teenager, and even more of the adult with Downs whose parents are no longer able to support him or her.

I agree that life with a child with a disability is sometimes painted as universally awful. However, it is also ofter romanticized.

NancyDrewHasaClue · 14/01/2011 09:55

God these threads piss me off "oh I'm not judging but I am just so shocked I'm going to start a thread in AIBU and be terribly judgey".

Down syndrome is not just "a challenge" it can be and often is a fatal condition, the spectrum is extremely wide and to suggest that all babies born with downs syndrome will lead a healthy fulfilling life is misleading. Most babies with downs syndrome do not make it to term. Those that do are in the minority and the health implications can be huge.

Carrying a baby that you know is not going to live is not "a challenge" it is horrific and depressing.

So I'm not in the slghtest bit suprised.

saffy85 · 14/01/2011 09:55

I haven't been tested for DS with either pregnancy. Firstly there is only a very small chance (I'm still fairly young myself) And secondly because I couldn't imagine saying goodbye to my baby due to this- I'd want it to have a chance.

Like I said though I'm don't judge those who choose termination for conditions like this- it can't be easy to make that decision. Abortions never struck me as easy anyway.

BalloonSlayer · 14/01/2011 09:56

I find it really hard to believe and accept. Sad

However, as curlymama says though, we wouldn't have aborted so didn't have tests beyond the nuchal scan which because of my age gave me a 1:88 chance. I'd have liked to know to be prepared (ie we were thinking of moving to get another room for the new baby, it would have been handy to know whether we might need to move into the catchment area of a certain school) but I wasn't going to risk my baby to find out as I wouldn't have aborted.

FWIW I know of three people who were told their unborn baby had markers of Down Syndrome. They spent the rest of their pregnancies worrying and in one case having an amniocentesis. None of the babies had Downs. Of the three babies I know who do have Downs, none of the parents knew in advance. (One had had 1:1000 in her blood and nuchal tests, she asked about it afterwards and got a shrug and "well you were the one in a thousand.)