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Original poster

To be shocked 90% of Down's babies are aborted?

575 replies

Strictly · 14/01/2011 09:20

I was jut reading this sorry, yes it's from the DM!

and then did a little Googling and it turns out 91% of people told their baby has DS will have an abortion... Shock

I'm just astounded it's so high. I'm not making a judgment on the idea people might abort, but am very shocked that it seems almost universal to abort if told the baby has Down's.

I wonder what it is about that particular condition that 91% of people feel they could not live with? The rates for abortions of Cerebral Palsy babies for example is nowhere near as high. Is it just that Down's is easy to detect so the majority of people actually get the chance to decide?

OP posts:
midori1999 · 17/01/2011 20:44

Eliza70, I agree and I think that is why people terminating for DS makes me so sad.

Strictly, only aound 50% of babies born with DS have congenital heart problems. My DS had two holes in his heart which were closed by surgery at six months old. He sailed through the surgery.

crazycatlady · 17/01/2011 20:56

50% of babies born with DS have congenital heart problems. But what of those who don't make it through the pregnancy through parental choice, miscarriage or stillbirth?

Do we know? No. We have no idea how many parents who make the decision to terminate base this decision on v v poor prognosis or incompatibility with life associated with DS (as we did), as opposed to 'just' DS because the official figures don't tell us this.

Surely this is an important factor in the debate?

lastresort · 17/01/2011 21:00

FGS, there seems to be a concensus here that those who choose to terminate due to DS are basically either selfish or stupid because the do not have all the medical facts.

Does it ever occur to anyone that some people choose this path because they feel very strongly that either they could not cope or they have other children who will possibly end up having to care for these siblings when the parents are no longer able to?

My DS1 was 4 years old when I terminated my DS child. I did not want to plan his future for him before he had even started school. He would have ended up having to care for his sister when myself and DH were not able to.

I have family friends who are both in their late 70s. Their dD who has DS is in her 50s and they are really struggling now. they went on to have 2 more DDs and when they became pregnant, insisted on them being tested for DS.

They both love DD1 but would not want their own children to go through the same difficult path.

KalokiMallow · 17/01/2011 21:11

"have not "walked in those shoes", in the most part they have not had a child with special needs, but are making assumptions on what they think it would be like and all of those assumptions are negative ones."

They have walked in their own shoes though, and know what their life is like, and whether or not they are in any position to offer enough to a child.

midori1999 · 17/01/2011 21:11

lastresort, have you read the thread? These days it is extremely unlikely any siblings would be expected or need to take care of a sibling with DS. People might feel they couldn't cope but they don't really know do they and some of those same people say they would have to cope if their DC was diagnosed with DS after birth.

crazycatlady I'm sorry for you loss. I can see what you are saying, but people aren't saying 'I would terminate if the child had additional complications that were incompatible with life" they are saying they don't want a child with DS full stop, usually because they couldn't cope (may or may not be true, they'll never know will they?) or because they don't want to burden siblings (something there is no need to happen in this day and age).

I would have thought I couldn't cope with a child with DS before I had one. In reality, it is an absolute breeze and I am a far better parent than I ever was before, DS3 has brought out the absolute best in me. I am not saying everyone is the same or everyone could cope, but you just don't know uhtil you've done it.

OldMumsy · 17/01/2011 21:15

But Fanjo it is a fact, the majority of children with DS have an IQ 30 to 60. I would find that really hard to cope with if I am being honest.

lastresort · 17/01/2011 21:24

midori- okay, you are right that people may be assuming that they wouldn't be able to cope. But what if you go ahead with the birth then 6 months later think you really can't cope?
You can't take it back like a pair of shoes that don't fit properly, can you?
Maybe some people just know their own limitations better than you give them credit for.
Not evrybody's perfect you know.

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 17/01/2011 21:31

For me, it wouldn't have been a DS child that would have bothered me at all, but what would happen to them when I was no longer around to cope, also the impact of such a child on the lives of siblings. Also the fact that a DS child would need my care all its life and never be able to live independently.

2shoes · 17/01/2011 21:51

have a look at this
it will sweep the assumption that young people with ds(sorry no idea what a ds child is) can't live independently.

eviscerateyourmemory · 17/01/2011 21:57

What do you mean by living independently 2shoes?

devientenigma · 17/01/2011 21:59

Crazycat, I went through exactly what you endured when you lost your baby. For me that was nearly 15 year ago and the only difference was I was rushed in to perform an extremely late abortion on a baby I wanted so much, as he was killing me!!!
Does that make me wrong for being so unconcious to know what was happeneing, or should my family of stepped in.
Personally I think this argument is extremely silly. Down syndrome is a huge sprectrum and I am sorry to have to say this but my kids suffer for their brother, they hate him at times, then feel strongly guilty. I agree we were dealt a tough hand and in the minority. My sons heart will never be repaired, he has so many issues which implicate his heart. One of my main worries is the day I have to say goodbye to him. That also could be as we have been told he will end up institutionalised, however his problems just need the correct help. Life is one major battle, with everything that goes on around having a child with special needs, as well as with the child. Though I would never change him for the world.
Does that mean someone is wrong to choose to not have the life I have. My best friend has chose to adopt and when her SW came out and asked would she take disabled, based on my son she said no. The behaviour team involved with my son also said me and my OH would make fantastic foster parents if we had spare time in our life. hen we discussed this, we both said we would give it a go, but would only take real challenging children.

Sorry for the waffle.

lastresort · 17/01/2011 21:59

anothersplace-you put it much better than me.

eviscerateyourmemory · 17/01/2011 22:00

Just to clarify what I mean, it looks like the people in your link have quite a lot of support. I just wasnt sure when you say living independently whether you meant that people living alone without care staff?

devientenigma · 17/01/2011 22:00

what I was meant to be saying was, it's the persons decision, respect what they want or need. It's not you who would have to live their life.

2shoes · 17/01/2011 22:01

eviscerateyourmemory not being looked after by their siblings or parents.

eviscerateyourmemory · 17/01/2011 22:03

Thanks, that makes sense. I have heard people use that phrase also to indicate living without 24/7 staffing.

lastresort · 17/01/2011 22:05

But that's just it 2shoes- most of them are reliant on family or siblings.

2shoes · 17/01/2011 22:08

sorry I suppose that is the way I see independent living, to me it means not living in a family or in a care home.
it is want I want for my dd.

can I just ask a bit of a off topic question?
what do people tell the siblings? if you terminate to spare them the threat of caring for a disabled sibling, do you tell them (obviously when they are old enough to understand) that you did it for them?

OldMumsy · 17/01/2011 22:09

Or social services and care workers etc. It's not independant living. If the funding dries up what then?

devientenigma · 17/01/2011 22:12

there is the right to inclusivness (sp)and human rights old!!!

midori1999 · 17/01/2011 22:13

Devient, I do appreciate your situation is difficult and I sympathise. Your experience is obviously a valid one and of ocurse, it is the sort of situation people should take into account, but your son really is in the very small minority and you know that.

My friend has a DD with Downs. She has been contacted quite a few times and asked if she would be prepared to speak to parents who have just found out the baby they are carrying has Downs. Not one of those couples has ever got as far as speaking to her or meeting her DD. I wonder why?

Impact of DS3 on his siblings? They adore him, DS1 more than DS2 but that is because DS3 likes to annoy DS2. Grin DS1 has now expressed a serious interest in teaching childen with special needs and hopes to help in a SN school for his work experience.

I find it extremely frustrating that people just don't 'get' that people with Downs can live independantly from their parents and siblings.

lastresort · 17/01/2011 22:15

Yeah right- 'oh by the way darling, the reason we terminated your sister was all because of you'. Get real. How would you feel if your parents told this to you?

You do what parents do every day to spare their children's feelings, you tell little white lies.

Eliza70 · 17/01/2011 22:16

But we don't know our limitations really, we know what we think our our limitiations. I always thought that DP would not be able to cope with a child with Downs, but when that was what we got (no pre-natal diaganosis, textbook pregnancy, no soft markers, nada) then we just had to cope.

And yes we are apprehensive about the future but things have moved on in terms of people with special needs living independent lives.

PigTail · 17/01/2011 22:16

OK, have had a glass of wine, to may not be too co hearnet, but surely if every foetus who was diagnosed with DS, was born rather than aborted, there would be much more help out there for people and families afected by this syndrome?

But as it is a very small number of the population have DS, and there is little help out there for them.

The caring for a sibling argument should not be a factor for parents when deciding to terminate their pregnancy, IMO there should be enough social help to provide for people when their parent's cant. what happens to people with Down's Syndrome who have no siblings?

And parents feel they can't cope? Then why is there nothing in place to help parents cope? There should be. People should not be terminating babies because they have a low IQ, and may never be able to support themselves. Support should be available to these people. Angry

FGS, there are members of my family with extremely high IQ's who cannot support themselves.

Let's all hope we soon have a test for Aspergers. Hmm

devientenigma · 17/01/2011 22:18

so basically you want me to shut up!!!
I'm sorry but it's beacase he doesn't quite fit with the typical DS box, is why he doesn't get the help he so rightly deserves!!
People are at a loss with him and we have struggled for the last 10 years, but thats ok, I will sit back and let you all condem eople for making their own choices!!