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Original poster

To be shocked 90% of Down's babies are aborted?

575 replies

Strictly · 14/01/2011 09:20

I was jut reading this sorry, yes it's from the DM!

and then did a little Googling and it turns out 91% of people told their baby has DS will have an abortion... Shock

I'm just astounded it's so high. I'm not making a judgment on the idea people might abort, but am very shocked that it seems almost universal to abort if told the baby has Down's.

I wonder what it is about that particular condition that 91% of people feel they could not live with? The rates for abortions of Cerebral Palsy babies for example is nowhere near as high. Is it just that Down's is easy to detect so the majority of people actually get the chance to decide?

OP posts:
TrillianAstra · 14/01/2011 10:53

It's not 91% of the population though Strictly - it's 91% of those who choose to have the tests.

You woulnd't be shocked if 91% of people who buy teabags drank tea, would you?

Original poster
Strictly · 14/01/2011 10:55

But the triple test is almost universal, I don't know anyone personally who has refused it. A very large indicator of DS can be gained just from the TT results alone.

OP posts:
violetwellies · 14/01/2011 10:58

As I said - no triple test - and my MW said the bloods were ONLY a test for Downs.

Chica31 · 14/01/2011 10:59

I would not have aborted on the TT alone, I needed the amnio to make the decision. Here in Spain amnios seem to be taken much more lightly. With my two further pregnancies I have been offered an amnio straight away, but I have waited for the results for the TT both times. It is then written all over my notes that I have refused to have an amnio. The doctors are always very confused by my "English" attitude.

mrskbpw · 14/01/2011 11:01

I don't know anyone who has had a baby with downs, but my best friend found out at her 20-week scan that her baby had spina bifida and hydrocephalus.

I don't think there was ever any assumption that she would terminate the pregnancy. She had a horrendous week or so, when she met a spina bifida specialist, went to see a unit where children are treated and found out as much as she could about the condition. All organised by the hospital. She was just given all the information and she and her husband made their own decision.

I'm always shocked by people who are 'pro-choice' but judgey about women terminating pregnancies because their baby has something wrong. So, it's fine to have an abortion because it's not convenient to be pregnant, but not if your child is going to be born with a life-limiting condition? Seems a bit strange to me....

Onetoomanycornettos · 14/01/2011 11:02

Stricty, that's not true, the triple test is refused by lots of people, plus it is just a risk screening, it won't tell you definitively whether the baby has Downs Syndrome, or indeed another Trisomy. It gives you a % risk, sometimes with the scan as well, but to really know if the baby has Downs syndrome, you need an amnio or CVS.

So, plenty of people refuse the triple test or the scan, then plenty more have a low risk result, and so don't proceed with invasive testing. Those that do proceed with it usually do so after weighing up the risk of miscarriage (say 1 in 100) against the their much higher risk of having a baby with Downs syndrome (say 1 in 100 or 1 in 5).

Only 'high risk' people go forward for diagnostic testing currently in the UK, unless you go private, although as someone has pointed out, lots of babies with Downs syndrome are born to the 'low risk' mothers as there's more of them.

NancyDrewHasaClue · 14/01/2011 11:02

SGB yes that is absolutely correct and is a point that is repeatedly ignored when the issue of testing for Downs is raised. And one which I think it is worth repeating: the majority of babies with Down's syndrome die in the womb or shortly after birth due to heart conditions, multiple organ failure, IUGR and other associated symptoms which are incompatible with life.

The idea that Downs syndrom is a minor learning difficulty is hugely inaccurate - those individuals you see who live relatively healthy, semi independent lives are the very lucky minority.

Onetoomanycornettos · 14/01/2011 11:04

Mrskbpw, I also find this strange, that many many people object to termination on the grounds of disability, but if you start a thread on here about, say, wanting an abortion as it's not the right time in your life, or indeed just to exercise your choice as indeed it is in our country, people are extremely supportive. Kind of a paradox really.

Original poster
Strictly · 14/01/2011 11:10

I think OTMC that that's people perception that aborting a disabled baby is making the judgment that the baby is not good enough for them, but aborting as it's the wrong time for you places the problem with you rather than the baby per se.

OP posts:
wouldliketoknow · 14/01/2011 11:11

i am not shocked, i would terminate, not because of the challengue of raising the baby, but a scary thought, what would happen to him/her when i am no longer here? what if i die when he/she is still young or indeed very young? what if he/she never develop to be semi-independent and i am in no condition to take care of him/her in my old age? what if goverment cuts means help to be semiindependent is no longer there?
i would never want to terminate a pregnancy, i think i would struggle to live with having done that, but...

boyscomingoutofmyears · 14/01/2011 11:13

Personally, I am shocked at the high abortion rate, but then again I am someone who has been around many people with various learning disabilities all of my life so see it as the 'norm' for want of a better word.

I detest the expectations of the medical profession that you should be tested and the expectation that you will abort. I declined the triple test with my 2 eldest and the nuchal test with my new baby and on all occasions midwives/doctors were shocked that I refused to have them.

I'm not against any form of testing and would never hold anything against those who go through with screening or with a termination but I think the medical profession need to be more careful about presenting these things as an option rather than an expectation.

seeker · 14/01/2011 11:14

I suspect the majority of the shocked faces (not the sad ones - the sadness is universal) come from people who have only ever met babies and toddlers with Down's Syndrome, or adults who are able to live a relatively normal life.

2shoes · 14/01/2011 11:14

i am not suprised. people don't want a less than perfect baby.
I do wish the money spent on these tests could be used to better educate people and also stop CP, CP is mainly caused at birth, more often than not by negligence.

Chica31 · 14/01/2011 11:15

I do struggle everyday with our decision and will never forget. It is not the easy option!

I agree with Wouldliketoknow

Eliza70 · 14/01/2011 11:19

Nancy where are you getting this information that most babies with DS die in the womb or at birth? Yes, some foteus will spontaneously miscarriage but generally these women will not have realized they were pregnant or it will be before 12 weeks. The majority if babies with DS do not die shortly after birth.

BuzzLightBeer · 14/01/2011 11:23

Totally agree with EricNorth, all the rather self indulgent little sad faces that other people aren't having babies with down syndrome. Well aren't they terrible?

2shoes · 14/01/2011 11:24

but is sad, as we need all types of people in the world, not just non disabled ones.

BuzzLightBeer · 14/01/2011 11:27

why?

2shoes · 14/01/2011 11:28

why what?

wouldliketoknow · 14/01/2011 11:30

the loss of any baby is sad. for no one sadder than for the expectant parents. having to be the one to decide your baby will not be born, has to be heartbreaking. this is not very late contraception, these people wanted a baby, they got pregnant, but are not having a baby. think how you would feel if it was you. spare a thought for them.

a friend of mine had to terminate her baby, a year later hasn't stop crying.

MainlyMaynie · 14/01/2011 11:33

I'm not shocked at all and even if I was I wouldn't feel I had any right to judge people placed in a position I've never been in. I'm more shocked at how many people feel able to judge.

KalokiMallow · 14/01/2011 11:33

So if it's 60% of people having the test, and 91% aborting, overall that's more like 55%

So not as high as the initial 91% suggests.

dikkertjedap · 14/01/2011 11:34

I am not surprised at all.

Many posters point out that children with Down's can have a very good quality of life, which of course is true. But there are also many children with Down's who have severe complications, heart defects, need lots of painful interventions and die relatively young. These things you will not know in advance unfortunately.

expatinscotland · 14/01/2011 11:35

these people wanted a baby, they got pregnant, but are not having a baby. think how you would feel if it was you. spare a thought for them.

And they got one to have. But chose otherwise.

That's the bottom line.

I understand peoples' reasoning behind it.

It's a free country, they're free to make that choice.

But it's because the baby they got doesn't fit their ideal.

I just hope people who make this choice don't then have a child with a condition that can't be diagnosed antenatally, or go on to develop a horrendous condition like mental health problems or addiction struggles later on when it's too late to decide it's curtains for them.

I'm not surprised, however.

expatinscotland · 14/01/2011 11:36

sorry, I missed out quotation marks.

'these people wanted a baby, they got pregnant, but are not having a baby. think how you would feel if it was you. spare a thought for them.'