Sex education for 5 year olds????

[etta81]

My daughter is only 2 at the moment so don't really have to worry about this yet but am I mad to be disgusted at the thought of a 5 year old getting sex education at school?? I would even consider taking my daughter out of the lessons!! Why do they need to know about he facts of life at such a young age? I didn't have it and I didn't get pregnant at 13, I think its got more to do with your upbringing and your social circles whether or not you get pregnant at a young age. You can give some kids all the education in the world and they'll still go out and get pregnant because its what their friends are doing.

Maybe the problem is really due to the fact that having kids before marriage is sociably acceptable nowadays and there's no shame in being pregnant at 14, you no longer have to hide away. I don't think that you should be hidden away or that its wrong to have kids if you're not married, its just a thought.

Am I just being naive or does anyone else feel like this.

'You teach a child to walk to school by themself around the time you would expect them to do it'

I disagree. I started teaching my son to walk safely by himself as soon as he could walk - not by saying 'Right, ds aged 1, can you walk to school?' but by teaching him ALWAYS to stop at a pavement - i.e. age appropriate skills, while telling him that one day he would be old enough to cross the road by himself. When he was 2 or 3, I started asking him if he could remember the way home from various places. You do these things incrementally. Aged 6 my son walked to school safely by himself.

'we don't teach children "responsible drug use"'
no, because drugs are illegal. We should teach them, however, that drugs are very available, that some people will take them, and that as adults we strongly recommend that they don't do so, and that they need to think how to handle it if they are offered them.

Sex is going to be legal, and more than that, joyful, life-sustaining, pleasurable, life-giving! I think a better analogy is how we teach children about food - though unfortunately our record on that in this country is if anything worse.

I am interested though in what you say about age-inappropriate lessons, and would certainly be upset at condom technique lessons in year 8. Is that an non-negotiable part of the curriculum?

It all argues again that the key is to find out what's going to be taught and to talk about it with your kids.

imgonnalive, that's v interesting. The teachers at my DD's school have all seen the National Curriculum stuff for Y5, and have all said that they don't think it's suitable for Y5s either as teachers or parents themselves - so are not going to use it. I am very, very glad of it, as are all the other parents.

good point mackeral about walking to school etc

I also think there are worse things than daunting/embarrassing some children who have no intention of having sex before they are 16, if the upside is that those who are likely to have sex at 13 are protected from pregnancy and STDs.

YABVU.

At my sons school (he is 7) there is a meeting about SRE - sex and relationship education - next week. They have the lessons from age 4, not 3.

It is not just about sex, it is about treating other with respect and learning about their own bodies.

In every country that has early SRE lessons and open, honest discussion about sex (I am thinking especially of the netherlands here) there are the lowest rates of teenage pregancy, abortions and STDs. FACT

Is your attitude more to do with the fact your dont know how to answer any questions your child me have? Does taling about sex embarrass you?

My DS1 (5) knows the basic facts of life. He chose this book (completely of his own volition - I think he liked the cover) from the local library, and I read it with him. He understood it well enough to work out that two girls can't have a baby by themselves (my sister just married another woman and they want children; I'm hoping he doesn't feel the need to share his new-found knowledge!)

We did buy him the Mummy Laid an Egg book about 18 months earlier when I was pregnant with his little brother, but he wasn't really interested then.

JAmieLeeCurtis - I'm not at all convinced that sex ed does much at all to prevent sexually active 13 year olds from getting pregnant, because:

Often sexually active 13yo girls are pressurised into sex by boyfriends (often slightly older) who are equally likely to pressurise them into not using a condom

There is often alcohol involved and the sex ends up "just happening". Just because you know about contraception doesn't mean you're going to use it when you're wasted

The kind of girls who fall pregnant at 13 are often also those demotivated at school who will not listen to much in the sex ed classes anyway and will dismiss it as it comes from teachers/the school.

I would go so far as to say sex ed does little to help those who are going to be sexually active anyway, but much to harm those who are not.

I'm not saying no sex ed at all, I just think sometimes less is more.

imgonnaliveforever - I'm interested in what you say about girls being pressurised to have sex - the premature sexualisation of girls really worries me (I have younger boys BTW) . Are you saying that you think sex education lessons encourage or at least condone children to have sex? If so, how could they be changed ?

imgonnaliveforever
I would go so far as to say sex ed does little to help those who are going to be sexually active anyway, but much to harm those who are not.

So how do you explain the fact - mentioned by becaroo - that countries with more, and earlier, sex education tend to have lower teenage pregnancy rates?

sorry about poor grammar- quick typing!

Is sex ed really about reducing teenage pregnancy rates, though? Surely not. Showing condoms to Y8s just makes them think that sex at 13 is the norm. Sex ed should also tell them that the vast majority of people do not have sex until they're over 16, and that it is in any case illegal to do so. There should be far more emphasis on not having sex at all, not on teaching children how to have sex without becoming pregnant.

JamieLee - I definitely think some of our 13 year olds sit there thinking "they're teaching me about this stuff, so I guess I'm now the right age to do it (since career advice etc are all given at the point of need rather than years in advance). I think schools know their own pupils and should be able to decide what's appropriate for them. But a major issue that would make it better would be not having LEA provided "specialists" who are often trendy-looking early 20s people trying to be "down with the kids", making "in-jokes" which in reality go over most of the kids'heads as they assume more knowledge than is there, and generally convey the message "sex is brilliant whoever it's with, it's a sign of being mature and we'd all be doing it all the time if it wasn't for pregnancy and sti.

David51 - firstly, pretty much everyone has lower teenage pregnancy rates than us, regardless of age of sex ed. Secondly, increased sex ed IN THIS COUNTRY has not reduced teen pregnancy.
Thirdly, in the countries where sex ed is earlier, eg holland, parents tend to have more open relationship and speak to children more, and there is more focus on relationships (often all too absent over here) and emphasis that sex is for people who are older, not 13 year olds.

More sex=more pregnancy, not more contraception=less pregnancy. I think it's a bit silly to think that teenage pregnancy is caused by teenagers not knowing about contraception rather than simply the fact that teenagers are having sex.

imgonnaliveforever
Secondly, increased sex ed IN THIS COUNTRY has not reduced teen pregnancy.

But teenage pregnancy rates have in fact gone down in this country over the past few years, were you aware of that? And if so what do you attribute it to other than sex education?

The Dutch teenage pregnancy rate is around eight times lower than ours. No, I don't know why. But shouldn't someone be checking it out and seeing if we can do the same?

To give people some idea of what sex ed is like in Holland...

www.teachers.tv/videos/holland-sex-education

www.teachers.tv/videos/holland-sex-education-2

oh poo

forgot linky things

www.teachers.tv/videos/holland-sex-education

www.teachers.tv/videos/holland-sex-education-2

great links sarah, thanks

There was a programme on a couple of years back with Davina Mccall in holland sitting in on dutch SE classes and taking to dutch kids about sex.

VERY enlightening.

Like them, we need specialist SRE teachers, not some tecaher just out of Teacher training college who is mortified at having to talk about masturbation!!!!

I remember a sociology lecturer of mine who was so embarrassed she couldnt even use the word - she called it "auto erotacism" ffs!!!!

I would argue that reducing SRE in schools will lead kids into getting their info from other shall we say less reliable sources...i.e youtube and, as another poster mentioned, believing its ok and being talked into having sex before they are ready and without using protection.

I have 2 young ds's. My eldest who is 7 has already been told the facts of life when I was expecting his 2 year old brother. I have already got books on the shelf for when he is older detailing what happens during puberty etc. It is my duty as his parent to discuss these issues with him. Other parents (like the OP obviously wont) so its a good thing the schools will.

I will be attending the meeting at my sons school next week at school and intend to give them my full supprt.

My DD had a very simple overview at 5 and a more detailed talk at 11. Both times parents were given the option to take them out of the session and to know the content of the lesson.

My DD went to hers (I did go for a preview of the Yr6 talk) and she's fine. She knew most of the basics about girls and basic biology from me, but was probably fairly curious about what they told her about boys (cue lots of giggling in the playground).

I don't get those parents who claim that the schools have no business teaching their children about body parts because it is their prerogative as a parent to decide when their child is ready?

Do you say the same about other parts of science education too? The school has no bloody business to decide when my daughter is old enough to learn about sulphur dioxides/radioactivity/photosynthesis: they are interfering with my rights as a parent!

(fwiw dd would fully agree that the school has no right to decide she is old enough to learn the formulas for the various dioxides )

What is it about simple biological facts that makes people so precious?

And I know I keep telling the same old anecdotes over and over again, but I grew up in Sweden where sex education was in full swing by the 70s. The only teen pregnancy I ever heard of growing up was the daughter of the Baptist pastor who got pregnant during a language exchange in the US. Presumably she was not the one who had been given the most information about how to guard herself against these things... But other than that, teen pregnancy was pretty well unheard of, and it is still very low in Sweden (apart from among some recent immigrant groups).

Lets be fair - at age 5 it will be about body part names, differences between boys & girls, possibly a bit about pregnancy & where babies come from, not which positions are most pleasurable or how to find your g spot!

I think most people are overreacting about this issue.

imgonnaliveforever
I question the need for year 8 pupils passing condoms round and learning how to put them on.

When I was at school a Year 8 pupil got pregnant & had the baby, cue the need for year 8 pupils passing condoms round and learning how to put them on.

I would have thought that as a secondary school teacher you would have some idea what goes on??

Teen pg is not rising anymore in the UK and so someone's doing something right!

Sex ed will not be 'let's watch porn' with five year olds. It might juist be naming body parts or talking about animals/insects having babies.

I told my ds1 when he was eight exactly what happens.

Also, as David51 said, teenage pregnancy rates in the UK at the moment are the lowest they have been in 20 years, funny that.

And moreover, sex does not = more pregnancies, funnily enough most of the people I went to school with (me included) had sex & most didn't get pregnant.

Get your head out of the bloody clouds imgonnaliveforever

Cory, that's a red herring. For some parents, sex is linked to morality/religious beliefs. I don't think that applied to photosynthesis when I did it at school.

And I repeat: the issue isn't whether teenagers become pregnant. The real issue is why children are having sex at all. I'd argue that this is a problem with and for the whole of society, and that we need to ask all sorts of questions of ourselves. Statistically, the time when most schoolchildren have sex is between 3.30 and 6pm, and it is in their own homes. Where are their parents while it's happening?

(NB the majority of teenagers are still virgins at 16, although you'd think they were all at it like rabbits at the age of 13 if the media/MN were to be believed).