Sex education for 5 year olds????

[etta81]

My daughter is only 2 at the moment so don't really have to worry about this yet but am I mad to be disgusted at the thought of a 5 year old getting sex education at school?? I would even consider taking my daughter out of the lessons!! Why do they need to know about he facts of life at such a young age? I didn't have it and I didn't get pregnant at 13, I think its got more to do with your upbringing and your social circles whether or not you get pregnant at a young age. You can give some kids all the education in the world and they'll still go out and get pregnant because its what their friends are doing.

Maybe the problem is really due to the fact that having kids before marriage is sociably acceptable nowadays and there's no shame in being pregnant at 14, you no longer have to hide away. I don't think that you should be hidden away or that its wrong to have kids if you're not married, its just a thought.

Am I just being naive or does anyone else feel like this.

Scorpette wrote
' My parents always used the correct words for genitalia too. I grew up with the view that your bits and bobs are just a part of your body'

Can you not see how you are contradicting yourself !!

My DS (now 8) was quite advanced in his education in comparison to his friends - he saw our spaniel bitch being 'serviced' a couple of years ago, so questions arose and I took the opportunity to tell him in appropriate depth about what was happening and how all mammals - humans included - were similar(although not always in the middle of a field).
I am a single parent so we had the "how did you have me if you weren't married" chat when he was in year 1 (or thereabouts). I told him that marriage wasn't a necessity, but that if a man and a woman loved eachother very much that was enough. At the age of 5/6 he didn't need the "when a girl gets pissed, shags someone she met in a nightclub and the contraception fails..." - that can wait till he is a bit older!!
I think that in the context of relationships that there is nothing wrong with sex education at school from an early age. I also think that children should be taught about emotions and self-esteem/worth too - we would all be far better off. It is lack of self-worth, not sex education that causes young girls to hop into bed with the first man that comes along - I should know!

Just to clarify the "when a girl gets pissed, shags someone she met in a nightclub and the contraception fails..." was not how I got up the duff - I was very very much in love! (with a tosser!)

Have only read the OP but YABU. I can understand your hesitation, however you have to appreciate that much as you would want the subject introduced when and how you chose, not every child has parents who are willing or able to provide this information. Also, the term 'sex education' covers much more than sex. Go and research exactly what is taught to 5yos, then make a judgement.

You attitude stinks, by the way. Referring to the 'problem' of having children out of marriage and then stating that you don't think they should be hidden away does not hide what you really think.

If we are having to teach children about self esteem, heaven help us. That just about says it all. People with high self esteem do not tend to have sex early, nor do they tend to have casual sex (yes, yes, I know there are exceptions to this rule - I'm generalising).

Good self esteem starts at birth, and starts with babies and young children having one-to-one time pretty much all day, every day with an adult (be it a parent, grandparent, grown-up sibling, nanny) who treats them as if they are the most special and marvellous being on the planet, whilst also not indulging/spoiling them. If you don't start out with this, you're not going to learn it in PSHE or PHSE or whatever it calls itself.

Bah.

Omnium - yes, in an ideal world - but clearly there are far too many children out there who are not as nurtured as they should be... Something in schools is better than nothing at all, surely?

Having taken a deep breath and given my five and seven year old an honest answer to the question 'but how does the sperm get in there, mummy?' my two simply don't believe the facts of life. I can see even the seven year old doesn't get it in the slightest. Not sure where to go from here, but am fairly sure that they absorb what they need to at any given time point, and labelling parts of the body is not 'mad'.

Asteria, yes ... but it is also taking away the choice from parents who do nurture their children and build their self esteem and so on. I am so very opposed to the state telling parents what to do and when to do it!

Yabu - it's all natural and shouldn't be seen as taboo. In fact I've just ordered a book called 'mummy laid an egg'(!) online as I want to teach my 5 and 3yo boys the facts in an age appropriate way (and my 4mo dd eventually too!). I'd rather it is seen as a normal thing to talk about from a young age (obviously not talking to them about bjs or bum sex etc!)

YABVU and ignorant you need to ask for the curriculum before you complain. I think you will find that under the ongoing curriculum for sex education up to to 16 is different at different ages.

at 5 children are taught about personal relationships and body awareness not sexual intercourse.

even so children need to understand biologicaly and emotionly how babies are made if thats what you are worried about.

Omni - I completely agree with you on that point, I just think that it's a shame all parents aren't as well equipped as eachother (we have to pass tests in order to drive, we are thoroughly vetted before being allowed a rescue dog, but any idiot can push out a child!). The cycle for those who don't get that boost at home will just keep going. The Gov don't have to override parenting either...
As for the sperm issue - I'm not sure how to approach that one. Having seen a couple of dogs at it my DS was quite easy to tell without getting too graphic. He also knows about periods - after the dog (again - brilliant learning tool!) coming into season and bleeding all over the house I just explained that all girls get that!

Omni - do you object to the state deciding when to teach multiplication and who the Romans were too?

I do as it happens object to the state deciding when to teach multiplication. I think it should be the job of teachers to decide when and how these things are done. Ditto the Romans (on the grounds that anyone who is educated and bright enough to become a teacher should know for themselves that certain things should be taught - and should have the discretion to decide exactly when and how to do it. If they're not that well educated or bright, they should be barred from teaching).

More thoughts on multiplication... My DS happens to be outstanding at Maths - so he learnt multiplication in Y1. Others in his class are still learning it properly in Y4. The teachers are responding to individual children, not to some state-imposed timetable.

etta81, the thing is that children are not brought up in a vacuum with contact only with their teachers and their parents - as the poster said above, even if they are home educated they are not out of contact with other children. They are part of a peer group, and it is definitely worth making sure that they all have some basic information and some basic ground rules.

My parents didn't do any sex education at all. None, nada, zip. Not body parts, not relationships, nothing. My school showed us a picture of chickens mating and then went straight to Tampax (literally - the film was sponsored by them - it was a film about tampons rather than about periods), sexually transmitted diseases and contraception (in a very, very pre-AIDS format).

Simultaneously I have grown up in a peer group where there was plenty of porn around (even in the 70s), losing your virginity aged 17 was average and where as far as the media were concerned it was pretty abnormal not to have sex with your partner straight away, and where an awful lot of negative 50s/60s/70s propaganda about women being 'teases' was still around, and that being a tease was the worst thing you could be (consider Grease the film - Sandy is only OK once she puts out, basically).

I had absolutely no way of reconciling these views. My parents, I think, felt that sex was for marriage only, but they never told me that! My mum was shocked and disgusted when I told her aged 17 that I was going to the family planning clinic - I naively thought she would be pleased at my responsible attitude! They never asked what I was being taught at school, what relationships my friends were having, never discussed what view of relationships I was building up.

this is a ramble - my point is that your children WILL learn about sex and relationships from an early age whether you talk to them about this or not. It's actually very good that the school has a plan to teach things from an early age in a staged way, rather than plunging straight in to serious stuff as my school did. However, the biggest influence on your children, especially at this young age, remains you, and the more open you are, the better. I would say don't remove them from the lessons - discuss the lessons with them, and challenge anything you don't like. Go and talk to the teacher and get more information.

nice post, mackerel.

Like you, I had no sex education at home or school. We "did" sex in Biology when I was 13/14, but that was it. However - and this is a huge however - I talked to my mum all the time about friends and school. So, not surprisingly, this invariably meant talking about sex and relationships. I think I spent about five years talking to my mum about this one way or another - although she never, ever explained anything to me, and made it very clear (by the way she talked about other people) that sex was not something she thought anyone should be doing until they were considerably older and in a stable relationship. Lo and behold, I lost my virginity at 21, when I was indeed in a stable relationship...

I think the moral of that story - if a moral it be - is that parents need to talk, talk, talk and listen, listen, listen to their children all the time. Or be available to do so. I think one huge problem now is that so many parents work full time that it's just not possible for them to spend three hours after school every day chit-chatting about Stuff with their child. It is a crying shame.

Omnium - I should imagine many parents would have to work ft to pay for the wonderful private education their children are receiving ...

(I am a SAHM and I don't spend 3 hours a day talking to my child after school)

... sorry children

Are there really people out there who would pay for private education or go to the trouble of home schooling just to avoid their children getting sex education lessons?

Amazing

YABVU, firstly, children are not being taught much at age 5, the curruculum leans more towards teaching about relationships etc. Secondly, I want my children to be armes with appropriate information. I always encourage my kids to ask questions and talk to me about anything and everything.

Having recently had a baby I got lots of rather specific questions from my 6 year old which I answered honestly and age appropriately. This may have backfired the other day when he came home from school and told me his teacher was pregnant so he decided to give her a detailed explanation of how the baby would come out .

JamieLC: as I say, it's a different world. When I was a child at private school, not a single mother worked: one salary paid for school and a nice house. That would be relatively unusual now.

I don't mean that anyone should sit there for three hours solid grilling their child about their day, friends and so on. I used to talk to my mum while she was cooking, washing up, watching Countdown, etc, etc, etc - and in the car on the way home from school. So did my sister. They are the best memories of my teenage years.

I am also a SAHM and don't officially spend three hours a day talking to my children after school. However, in between walking them home and putting them to bed, there is a lot of talking one way or another. Much of the talk with DD is about friends, kindness and unkindness, who said what, etc, etc, etc. I'm sure that this kind of conversation will, in due course, come to include sex.

And David51: of course not. It's just a very tiny part of the deal.

dc3, 4 y old, loves the book about daddy's swimmers and mum's egg.... She found it herself on a bookshelf in the library.

Sorry - It was your throw-away assumption about working parents that offended a bit. I do agree with you about being able to chat to your children.

Many posters here are being unreasonable, and actually not that well informed.

I am a secondary school teacher and have been present at a number of sex ed lessons for various secondary ages, and I would say that many of them are NOT sufficiently age appropriate.

I question the need for year 8 pupils passing condoms round and learning how to put them on.

You teach a child to walk to school by themself around the time you would expect them to do it, and I think it's the same for sex. Why teach them at 13 how to do something that is not legal for another 3 years.

Many will say "but they will just do it anyway" to which I have two responses.

The first is that we don't teach children "responsible drug use" on the basis that many of them will do these things anyway. We tell them that they shouldn't be using drugs. And really, 13 year olds shouldn't be having sex because they are children.

The second point is that while it may be true in certain areas/parts of the country that the 13 years olds are all having sex, it is by no means true everywhere. It is actually quite upsetting to see the daunted look on many pupils' faces as they are expected to digest pregnancy and sti risks and deal with various methods of contraception.

My school only delivers what the national curriculum says it has to deliver, but it is definitely doing our kids more harm than good.

So, OP, YANBU.