to think that those who moan about the cost of childcare

[3x3]

should stay at home and mind their kids themsleves?

Now i'm not talking about those who have to work to pay their mortgages etc. to survive.But those who say 'oh i don't know why i work so hard and pay so much to the creche,i only come home with ?60 a month after paying the creche'

Eh,?60 won't pay your mortgage?? So therefore you dont NEED to work so mind your own children and save ?1600 a month. Simples!!

FWIW, I don't think that coccyx gets the irony that, were those parents to choose not to work or not have children, she would be out of a job or would be paid a lot less as the need for childcare providers would be nearly non-existent.

An interesting debate with good points by a lot of people

Interestingly enough, i have a few friends who are primary teachers and they have all said that they can tell the children who have come from full time nursery care (from since they were babies) within a day as they are more disruptive, less secure etc...

It is hard, not sure what the answers are (I am freelance designer so do my work at night) but I always personally felt it was important to be with my kids for at least the first year - I personally don't like the idea of babies on nursery full time I don't think its good for them but I also understand that sometimes circumstances mean women need to go back to work when maternity pay runs out. But I really don't get three month old babies in full time nursery I think that is wrong on all levels

My childcare bill, when ds went, was higger than my mortgage

3x3 is entitled to her opinion and should not be flames for it. So is custardo!

Lots of points here.
I am a nursry nurse and am very good at it, I am gaining qualifications and have nearly finished my degree (have done nearly 3 years, only 1 more to go)
Unfortunately, once I have gained my qualification, I will probaly be leaving child-care as I haven't had a payrise for 3 years and am unlikely to recieve one for my higher lever of qualification. Which is a shame, as the nurseries will be left with all the empty-headed teenagers that go into early years for all the wrong reasons.
Secondly, there is plenty of reserach that suggests the early formative years are very important and the experiences a child has have a direct influence on how well that child does in later life. Children who attend nursery tend to do better than those children who don't. (Look at the findings of the EPPE project, High Scope and Head Start)
Thirdly, most women need to work, in the same way that men do. it gives them a sense of purpose to their life, that sometimes you just don't get from being a SAHM, as we live in a society that does not value child-care as it should do. It is under-valued. Not all women are able to take career breaks, they need to remain in the job or they will get left behind.
I have evry respect for mothers who have to use childcare for their children. For some, it's not an easy choice. I have seen new mothers sobbing their eyes out as they leave their tiny babies for the first time. it's heartbreaking to watch. I expect every one of them would love to be able to stay at home and look after them theirselves. Not always 'simples' is it, OP?

I can see both side here

I work part time so I can keep an adult life/interests that are not child related
I spend the rest of my time enjoying my children/ family/ friends
This balance works for me and I am a very happy mum of 2.
I realise I'm lucky that my dh earns enough for me to not work full time and my heart gies out to those women that want to stay at home but can't do to genuine financial reasons

However I don't get women that seem to have a baby and then return to work asap full time for the love of work and no other reason. Love your work great. But why have a child if you're not intersted in being with them

booandpops - I see your point with that last paragraph however i think its not as simple as that for some people - some mums find they have a baby and then lose themselves and go back to work to "find" themselves again,some people dont find having a baby as easy as they thought they would and going back to work creates some normality in their lives . :)

I hope this OP doesn't have any daughters...

I also hope that the fact that this is the first post/thread from 3x3 is significant.

It's brilliant being a Dad, I have never once been made to feel guilty for working full time.

Now I'm a single parent again I'm not made to feel guilty about this in fact quite the reverse.

Why not post it again but don't try and guilt trip the Mums on here?

Do it how you flipping want I say.

Try it in real life, walk up to your boss or whoever is male and say:

'don't you feel guilty working? Think of the children, won't somebody please think of the children'

I stand up for men on here but this is where we have it easier, we don't get judged for working.

Truck

I'm about to go back to work and while after childcare and the travelcard into Central London, I'll have a bit more than the £60 a month left over, it's still an amount that as a family we could live without, however, for woman who do my job, if you stop working for 5 years, you don't just miss out on 5 years of promotions, you are starting again. The last decade post uni would be effectively wasted and I'd be back looking at the sort of salaries I was being offered at 21. At which point it would really not seem worth it and you really have to hope your DH doesn't get hit by a bus as I'd not be able to support the family.

I am also lucky enough that if I went back to work full time (I'm not, but will always have the option of increasing hours to full time) and didn't have childcare to pay for, I could cover all the bills. So DH can take bigger risks with his career, knowing if it doesn't work out, I can cover the basics (assuming if he's out of work, he's doing the childcare so we wouldn't have that bill).

Basically OP - some woman are looking at their career and saying to themselves "short term pain, long term gain" - that doesn't make the short term bit any less shitty.

Tbh I can't understand why this topic always brings out the worst in people.

Some love being SAHM's, some would love to be but can't afford it. Some would go mad being SAHM's but it doesn't mean they regret having their DC's or don't love them. We're all different and we all have different circumstances and reasons for working or not working.

Does it really fucking matter?

coccyx - "Most chose to go back to work for selfish career minded reasons.
Don't have the children then"

How dare you!! You have no idea what womens personal circumstances are, your ill thought out and judgemental statement is pathetic. And belongs in the dark ages - are women not allowed to have a job/career and childsren - is it 1 or the otehr?

And its not as simple as saying taking a career break - Im in quite a specialised area of the NHS and if gave my job up I would stand zero chance of returning, have you noticed the job market recently? The NHS has a recruitment freeze.

You sound a resentful and nasty person tbh - great attitude to have to looking after children eh. No-one disputes that looking after young children is hard, but even if a woamn did want to return to work for "selfish" career reasons - why is it selfish anyway, to work to support your family? And to raise your children with a good work ethic?

Or maybe I should just choose a life on benefits (and I have nothing against people on benefits who need to be, cant stand the pilloring single parents get etc) - and be critcised constantly for not working to support the children I chose to have!

I would never be so nasty about SAHMs - at the end of the day its their personal chocie and as individuals we all do what suits us and our families best.

Chocolatebuttontheif

is some way YANBU

people seem to expect childcare to be FREE! some childminders earn less PH than a cleaning lady!

having kids is expensive, simples

BUT some people need to work, not all careers allow a 3 year break, so I can see why it gutting but once at school, life easier no?

Wow - I am so selfish coccyx for wanting a degree and a job. I should go back to being a single parent on benefits with no prospects should I? Don't be so fucking stupid and narrow minded.

"When my point is if you can afford to be at home with your kids why waste the money on creche fees mind them yourself."

I thought like this when I stayed at home with my children. I will however be getting a crap pension. The local childminder will do far better.

And if dh had died or walked out on me -as some partners do- before I had got my career back on its feet again, I would have been seriously in the shit.

Staying at home to look after children can be a very rewarding thing to do for some people. But financially, it is a huge gamble.

I consider working (part time) and supporting my family as beig a good role model for my son.

Interesting that this is 3x3's first post on here.

I think she's a reincarnation of those others who've popped up on here recently, with similar posts, which start in a relatively innocuous manner, but quickly reveal themselves to just be bashing women who work.

My theory is that there's a very frustrated resentful woman out there. Term has started, her children are back in school all day and she's feeling not needed and rather left behind in the world of work.

Look back over threads over the last week. A definite pattern........

To all those who think that women only work for "selfish career reasons", I sincerely hope you never have to support your families yourselves.

I'll be out later with SAHDs, WOHDs, single Dads and believe me these conversations are never had.

You do what you have to do.

Don't bite and don't feel guilty.

Agree with Belle - hope OP doesn't have daughters.
I hope that my working (plan is part time till she goes to school then full time) and finding fulfilment outside the house/using my amazing education etc will inspire dd. I did not have this role model at all from my mum who left school early and had kids early (but is a lovely woman).
I find my position hard sometimes as between her and my MIL the role model for a mother in our families is so based around being a SAHM. The feeling of 'mums stay at home' is so very prevalent in all conversations I have with both of them that I have to be really strong about my opinuons/ideals not to let it get to me.
Luckily I have an amazingly supportive dh who fell in love with me because of my intelligence and drive and pushes me to get back out there.
I also look at their lives now and don't want that. My mum's okay - dad's business is successful so between helping him work on it and spending the proceeds she has a great life. MIL seems to bake cakes and even bought FIL a bell so he could summon her when he wanted tea for Xmas. Really, really don't want to be that woman when my children have all flown the nest.

yes the 60 pounds might not make a huge difference at the time. But the fact that this woman was working and did not take 10+ years off will in most cases make a massive difference after those 10 years. In my chosen profession, I would pretty muck have to start from the beginning again if I had such a gap in my career.

unfortunately motherly love, changing all the diapers yourself and homebaked cookies are not enough to raise a kid nowadays, some money is needed. We can argue here but I believe that I will provide my kids with better opportunities in life by being able to send them to different activities that interest them or being able to pay their university fees in the future. Unfortunately this does also mean that I have to keep working and cannot stay home until they all are leaving for the said university. "Simples" really.

'MIL seems to bake cakes and even bought FIL a bell so he could summon her when he wanted tea for Xmas.'

Now where can I find a woman like that?

That's a joke before I get lynched.