are you all scared of being called racists?

[SalvadorDalek]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/
I am suprised nobody has posted this story
Why are we suprised,this has been going on for years

Think it's really confusing how we 'classify' ourselves. Is it where we were born, ethnic origin or can we adopt an identity? Were any of the men born in England? Are they then Asian or English then? Mutznutz, think it's interesting you classify yourself simply as English. In England, people of completely Irish origin seem to completely shrug off their origins in the first born generation. Guess it may have been undesirable in the past. In America, they can be Irish-American for a few generations. J.F.K. for example.

I think it's interesting how people accept some people born in England (with no English heritage) as simply English and the cultural heritage of others is always referred to (British Asian).

I'll tell ya, Westerngirl, English is an ethnic group, same as Welsh, Scottish, Irish, Pakistani etc, British is the term for anyone born here (or who has a passport, LOL) doesn't mean they will have an allegiance to Britain, mind, they will probably hate it and us, however they are entitled to call themselves British.

I don't know any Asians who call themselves English and I would think themselves very wierd if they did!!!!

I don't think it is confusing. Different people make different choices about how they refer to themselves.

But generally, if someone is from a very closely connected country to England moves to England, within a few generations their children describe themselves as English. That is because of the very close proximity; if people who are not born or brought up in Scotland, Wales or Ireland start referring to themselves as Scottish, Welsh or Irish, they are essentially using someone else's civic identity as their ethnic identity. That is at best confusing and at worst offensive and used as an excuse to interfere in the politics of other nations.

It doesn't matter if someone's identity is Pakistani when they were born in Britain, because we don't share a border with Pakistan and don't constantly come into contact with large numbers of people who currently live in Pakistan so it isn't confusing. In much the same way Americans sometimes say they are Irish (even though their ancestors left Ireland 200 years ago) - we all understand they are actually Americans, and it doesn't matter because they have no geographical association with Ireland and less political links with it than Britain has.

dobiegirl - the fact that you're posting on a site for parents make me shudder. I hope you are as you appear to be: just a weird troll who is saying the worst things they can think of to get attention. If not, you are disgusting. I don't feel moved to tell people that often - in fact I have never done so on the internet before. I'm just heartened by the fact that everyone on here seems to feel the same way.

And as an aside: if you're so proud of being English, please stop butchering our language.

Sorry everyone else for the derail.

Who said 'I was so proud of being English?' - and if I did, which I didn't, why would that bother you?????

actual 'white' is the ethnicity = English reflects the country of birth - oh and I work with 3 ENGLISH Asians

honestly you are silly

It would bother me because your grammar and spelling is appalling. Our language is one of our greatest assets.

That is just a bizarre statement GLS. Of course the English are an ethnic group. You don't have to have any particular skin pigmentation to have an English ethnicity.

"English is an ethnic group" lmao!

Why are you bothered about my spelling and grammer girl? What's it to you? You make yourself sound like a little snob, snigger!!

There is some spectacular ignorance on this thread.

Wrt the OP no I'm not scared of being called racist because I don't tend to generalise about racial groups. However, I have probably absorbed some cultural racism so would rather have that exposed to me than carry on with any untrue perspective.

English is an ethnic group same as pakistani, Scottish or any of the others, people get educated -you don't have to be a minority to be an ethnic group!!

MillyR,

Is nationality the civic identity you are referring to? If so, would British Pakistani be incorrect for someone of Pakistani parents born in Britain as it would also be using someone else's civic identity as their ethnic identity.

Why are they not uniformly referred to as simply British or English when born in England like people of Irish, Scottish and Welsh ancestry irrespective of how far away their ancesters home was?

MillyR, the Oxford dictionary definition of ethnic group is: Individuals who consider themselves, or are considered by others, to share common characteristics that differentiate them from the other collectivities in a society, and from which they develop their distinctive cultural behaviour form an ethnic group.

So we would say to a Pakistani man, 'no you're not of pakistani ethnicity, you're of a brown ethnicity -some how I can't see him buying into that, can you?

That's just making someone a colour gordyshagssheep!! Honestly you're a little silly

Oh dear :D I'd rather be a snob than a complete embarrassment and a racist. I'm not actually going to engage with you any more because you're clearly a bit simple.

England is a country dobiegirl. So is Pakistan. Race / ethnicity is defined genetically (as far as it can be with the wide spectrum of possibilities) and cultures are defined by their histories and rituals etc.

The English are a nation and ethnic group native to England!!!

Good tettoni, I happen to think the same so we can agree on that, I'm still proud to be English though, so go and fume about that all night pal!!

A national identity isn't really the same as an ethnicity

I'm so glad you're not Welsh after all dobiegirl !

Don't know who started that, blinder

I used civic identity because currently, if you live in Scotland your nationality (passport etc) is British, but you have a further civic identity under the law (university fees, court system etc) of being Scottish. If people who were born and brought up and living in England start referring to themselves as Scottish, it causes problems because they are not Scottish in the civic sense. Civic decisions about Scotland should be made by only the people who live in Scotland regardless of them having English, African, or Scottish parents. For that reason, people with Scottish grandparents who live in England usually call themselves English.

It is completely different with Pakistan because we don't share a border with Pakistan and are not trying to sort out a complex shared political system with them. So it is fine to refer to yourself as Pakistani when you are from Britain; everybody knows what you mean.

But if people who live in England, were born in England and have always lived in England start claiming to be Scottish, that is confusing as we are constantly in contact with people who genuinely are Scottish and live in Scotland within various entitlements granted as a result of being Scottish.

SO there is simply no way of making 'Scottish' an analogue to 'Pakistani.'

IN UK law the English are an ethnic group. There was a whole thread on this yesterday about the Irish.

Agree Milly!!