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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that children shouldn't be screaming and running around in a library?

378 replies

PeeringIntoAFestiveVoid · 06/01/2011 21:32

I have a feeling I'm going to get toasted to a perfect 'well done' shade of brown here.... Grin

I went to the library with DD today, and as we came in, there was a woman with a pushchair standing at the desk. As I was returning our books (not at the desk) and browsing, there were two children running around, screaming and shouting - the younger boy looked about three, the older boy five or so. They seemed to be with the mum at the desk, as she occasionally ssshhhed them (of which they took no notice at all). There was an older boy who looked to be six or seven, who joined in with the shouting and running from time to time, but wasn't causing the same chaos as the littler ones. The toddler had an utterly ear piercing shriek (I really can't stand shrill noises, so I realise I'm less tolerant of this kind of thing than many people), which he was letting rip frequently and very very loudly. There was a bloke there who I presumed to be their dad, as he sometimes spoke to them and called them over, but they didn't pay any attention at all, and he didn't push it or try to moderate their behaviour.

I joined DD in the children's section, and the two boys were running in and out of that area (then across the library to mum at the desk again). They were fighting, very vociferously, over a bottled drink, a fair bit of which got spilled on the floor. Several books were also knocked onto the floor. A couple of other children were sitting on the covered seats/cushions, and were intimidated by them rolling around, shouting and fighting. I was feeling very Hmm and wondered why the staff didn't point out to the mum that this wasn't ok behaviour.

As we checked our books out, the toddler screamed very loudly right behind me. I said "God almighty" and turned round, and the mum was walking past me with all four children. She said "What?? He's only two". I said "They've been running around screaming and fighting for the last twenty minutes. This is a library". She said "I don't care" to which I replied "Clearly; if you cared about other people, you wouldn't let your kids run around screaming and fighting". The woman walked off to the children's section.

I thought about what had happened, and thought maybe I'm completely out of sync with what's acceptable in libraries these days. As I was leaving I went to the desk and said "I know libraries aren't the solemn, silent places of the seventies, and I'm really glad about that, but is that now acceptable behaviour for children in a library? Am I way off the mark on what is ok?". The librarian said that the woman was joining the library, and that she had four children who'd never been in the library before (one was a babe in pushchair, obviously), so they didn't say anything to her. She looked quite Hmm at me.

I can see her point, and am wondering whether I was BU to say what I did. But to me, wherever I was I wouldn't let my children run around fighting and emitting ear-splitting shrieks, let alone in a library. I know it's not a sacred sanctum, but a library is supposed to be someone where you can go for peace and quiet to enjoy books.

So AIBU?

OP posts:
Laquitar · 07/01/2011 19:04

Maybe the receptionist has 4 dcs herself.
Maybe she knows about siblings arguing and having bad days as a parent.
Maybe she even is chav herself and aproves of the sugary drink Grin

I bet if the woman had left the desk to go to her dcs she would be accused of delaying filling the form and holding the rest of you.

libbyssister · 07/01/2011 19:06

I think it's reasonable to expect a bit of understanding from fellow mothers. When the comments come from, in my experience, "grumpy old women" it's still hurtful but you can at least tell yourself that they don't understand what its like. Sounds like the woman in the library was having a hard day anyway and the OP's comments prob stung and stayed with her for the rest of the day.

notsohotchic · 07/01/2011 19:06

So someone was having a bad day, in the library with 4 children. I can't believe how judgemental some of you are!! You really have no idea if you only have your precious first born to worry about. Bupcakes get off the highhorse and imagine being judged yourself, at your worst parenting moment, because everyone has them!
Libraries have changed a great deal, ours has a cafe. I do think they should retain a 1970's style sacred area of silence for those uptight people who have such preferences. Perhaps even a padded cell for those screaming children? A soundproofed soft play area - now thats a great idea. But would it be funded...

bupcakesandcunting · 07/01/2011 19:15

I'm not on my high horse. I've recounted here about how my DC shows me up with his behaviour. Difference is, I don't stand there doing goldfish mouth whilst he annoys everyone in close proximity. I try and stop it.

I think it's a shame that libraries seem to be changing into drop-in centres for idiots. Cafes in libraries indeed. Why not get a dj in to play some chart hits for the minis to bop to? How about a nice game of bingo, really liven things up! A bar! They need bars. With 24 hour licensing. With 2 4 1 on Blue WKD. How about an illegal rave over in the corner by Crime Fiction? If you're a regular, you'll know which librarian to approach for ecstacy.

BoffinMum · 07/01/2011 19:16

Bupcakes, nobody ever tells me to keep my beak out because I do it in a way that is apparently so pro-the-other-parent that they have to submit to my wiley ways. Wink

TwoIfBySea · 07/01/2011 19:17

YADDDDDNBU!!!

I cannot stand the fact that people are so willing to throw their hands in the air in defeat that their little darlings are out of control.

I'm sorry, our job as parents is to instil a sense of respect and responsibility and part of that is to teach them how to behave in public areas. I know some believe that if you so much as dare think of doing such a thing you are a horrible mean mummy who cannot stand children being children.

Not so. And that attitude is why people are too scared to confront lax parents.

I've had my dts misbehave - I take them outside until they do. I've been taking dts to the library since they were in their double pram, sure they can be noisy but they know how they are meant to be and running around behaving like a brat is not it.

I bet those that see nothing wrong with kids being kids let theirs run around in restaurants too. Enjoy what happens when the little dear crashes into someone carrying a plate of hot drinks/soup etc.

TwoIfBySea · 07/01/2011 19:20

Just so I'm not seen as a complete cow (which I'm in a grumpy mood for today!) I do love hearing mums and dads read to their children or discuss the books with them.

Kids have to learn how to be quiet and contain themselves.

libbyssister · 07/01/2011 19:36

At 5 my eldest DS has learnt how to behave in a library. His 2-year-old brother is still learning, but he will get there. I agree, we do want to instill respect and reponsibility in our children. In return I also expect a level of respect from adults. I fail to see how the woman who said she wanted to use a machine gun on my son is being in anyway respectful.

bupcakesandcunting · 07/01/2011 19:37

Also, a lot of people on this thread seem unable to distinguish between kids just being kids i.e lively, talkative, etc and being little shits tearaways. If you don't like having children screech down your lughole anc generally being a PITA, you are a miserable witch. I expect there to be children talking, even running about in the children's library. But if I wanted to see kids scrapping and spilling Fruit Shoot whilst their mother turns a blind 'un, frankly, I'd visit a Wacky Warehouse.

compo · 07/01/2011 19:40

Bupcakes - they're forced to be one stop shops or face closure
so by allowing you to go in pay your council tax, book your adult ed course, bid on a council house, check your email, have a coffee etc etc means your library will stay open
it's the quiet ones with nothing else going on that will close

bupcakesandcunting · 07/01/2011 19:43

Well, why can't they stay open by doing more library related stuff? Instead of transforming them into mini soft play areas/youth centres.

Am well aware that I sound like a joyless cow here Grin

compo · 07/01/2011 19:45

Because cuts have to be made
see if your library is threatened here [[ www.librarycampaign.com/Campaigns

compo · 07/01/2011 19:46

here

compo · 07/01/2011 19:47

Also teenagers are into music the internet etc so by doing all that gubbins it gets them into the library
I for one am happy my kids are in the library surfing the net and drinking lemonade than at a park drinking cider

ShoppingDays · 07/01/2011 19:48

Another thought. Why shouldn't there be somewhere for people to study, work, write or concentrate? Or are these things so worthless to today's world?

compo · 07/01/2011 19:50

Why can't their be both? A reference/ Reading room. A childrens library.- a pc area

bupcakesandcunting · 07/01/2011 19:50

Yes, I do agree that it's good that teens are being drawn into the libraries, even if it is to surf the net rather than look at books.

I suppose there is no reason that adding facilities to libraries such as cafes etc can't work if everyone is civilised and nice and doesn't treat it as an extension of the pub.

ShoppingDays · 07/01/2011 19:53

Some young people would use the library for doing homework quietly or reading (some of the time anyway!) So I think even the children's area should have a quiet section.

PrincessBoo · 07/01/2011 19:55

:o at Wacky Warehouse cunting

So ,what that lady needs is a lesson in parenting from MNers then. Because on the evidence of oooh, about 5 minutes observation from the point of view of one person some people on here have decided this lady is the sort who never addresses the behaviour of her children 'little darlings' in public effectively. She's the sort who always lets her children run riot, and doesn't give a toss what anyone else thinks.

Selfish chav. How dare she be allowed to step foot in a library. Hmm

PrincessBoo · 07/01/2011 19:56

And this dream library that you are all describing is never going to happen. Plans are afoot to have libraries run by volunteers. This government thinks they are expendable.

ShoppingDays · 07/01/2011 19:58

It's not a "dream library", it's what some libraries are and it's what more of them were. Great shame about the government plans Sad

katiestar · 07/01/2011 20:05

YABU. From what i understand the woman had 4 lively boys under 7, and you, with your one demure little girl, feel placed to judge???
Secondly it was the library's place to intervene if necessary, not yours!!

mathanxiety · 07/01/2011 20:05

My local library is pretty urban and fills up with chatting homeless people on cold days. The loudest person I've ever encountered there was a very old man with a mobile phone (not homeless though as far as I could tell) who made one call and received two, and bellowed in a language I didn't recognise at whoever he was talking to as if he really had to shout across the miles (possibly all the way to Uzbekistan). Then he fall asleep (there are some armchairs) and snored loudly for twenty minutes.

I think my point is that there are people, even adults, who may have never experienced libraries before and hopefully when they know more they'll do better. Nice that the family were joining the library. Maybe they'll understand it's better to be quiet there at some point.

sayjay · 07/01/2011 20:07

Well, from the mum's perspective maybe - picks up dc from school, herds all 4 to library, has to spend twenty minutes form filling. The excited boys are causing a scene round the corner and she is too tied up with the staff to properly give it her full attention, the toddler is upset, she's hot and bothered and pretty stressed. Then the tired, hot, grumpy toddler lets out a wail and a sour faced cow behind her rolls eyes and exclaims "God almighty".

As far as she knows your complaint is about the 2 year old's wail - so on that YABU, 2 year old shrieks in public place it happens.

The staff are in the best position to determine whether you or she were BU and obviously thought that you were.

If you or boffinmum spoke to me in such condescending tones you'd get short shrift off me too. FWIW my preschooler has ASD, of course these boys were probably not SN, but I have now learned not to be so judgmental as you just don't know what's going on in someone else's life. So 20 minutes of your day got ruined by noisy kids in the library. If that's the worst thing to happen to you today then lucky you. Maybe she was trying to make something good happen for her and the DC and you made a difficult task harder. Hope she means what she says and really doesn't care, but I imagine that actually you've ruined that trip for her - not just the other way around.

ragged · 07/01/2011 20:10

They shouldn't have been running amok.
The "God Almighty" comment was diabolical.
Lessons to be learnt by all.