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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that children shouldn't be screaming and running around in a library?

378 replies

PeeringIntoAFestiveVoid · 06/01/2011 21:32

I have a feeling I'm going to get toasted to a perfect 'well done' shade of brown here.... Grin

I went to the library with DD today, and as we came in, there was a woman with a pushchair standing at the desk. As I was returning our books (not at the desk) and browsing, there were two children running around, screaming and shouting - the younger boy looked about three, the older boy five or so. They seemed to be with the mum at the desk, as she occasionally ssshhhed them (of which they took no notice at all). There was an older boy who looked to be six or seven, who joined in with the shouting and running from time to time, but wasn't causing the same chaos as the littler ones. The toddler had an utterly ear piercing shriek (I really can't stand shrill noises, so I realise I'm less tolerant of this kind of thing than many people), which he was letting rip frequently and very very loudly. There was a bloke there who I presumed to be their dad, as he sometimes spoke to them and called them over, but they didn't pay any attention at all, and he didn't push it or try to moderate their behaviour.

I joined DD in the children's section, and the two boys were running in and out of that area (then across the library to mum at the desk again). They were fighting, very vociferously, over a bottled drink, a fair bit of which got spilled on the floor. Several books were also knocked onto the floor. A couple of other children were sitting on the covered seats/cushions, and were intimidated by them rolling around, shouting and fighting. I was feeling very Hmm and wondered why the staff didn't point out to the mum that this wasn't ok behaviour.

As we checked our books out, the toddler screamed very loudly right behind me. I said "God almighty" and turned round, and the mum was walking past me with all four children. She said "What?? He's only two". I said "They've been running around screaming and fighting for the last twenty minutes. This is a library". She said "I don't care" to which I replied "Clearly; if you cared about other people, you wouldn't let your kids run around screaming and fighting". The woman walked off to the children's section.

I thought about what had happened, and thought maybe I'm completely out of sync with what's acceptable in libraries these days. As I was leaving I went to the desk and said "I know libraries aren't the solemn, silent places of the seventies, and I'm really glad about that, but is that now acceptable behaviour for children in a library? Am I way off the mark on what is ok?". The librarian said that the woman was joining the library, and that she had four children who'd never been in the library before (one was a babe in pushchair, obviously), so they didn't say anything to her. She looked quite Hmm at me.

I can see her point, and am wondering whether I was BU to say what I did. But to me, wherever I was I wouldn't let my children run around fighting and emitting ear-splitting shrieks, let alone in a library. I know it's not a sacred sanctum, but a library is supposed to be someone where you can go for peace and quiet to enjoy books.

So AIBU?

OP posts:
PrincessBoo · 07/01/2011 17:53

Tainted snow when I said my son acts like owns the place, I meant he behaves like he works there, being all official and trying to copy his Dad. Not that he runs around screaming. It's quite cute actually.

PrincessBoo · 07/01/2011 17:55

Charliesmummy She was at the desk filling in a form wasn't she?

it ended with 'she walked to the children's section'. Did the OP hang around to see what she said to her children then?

elsiemarley · 07/01/2011 17:56

Goats in a swimming pool! Hilarious! You can't really compare naughty children in a library to goats in the local pool though. Even naughty children need to learn how to read and use books. Goats don't really need to learn how to swim though do they?

melikalikimaka · 07/01/2011 17:57

I think Libraries are scared to lose customers these days and maybe the staff have been encouraged to let things go. So I'm very afraid that libraries are everything to everyone and master of none but that is a bit sad for anyone who wants peace to study or read. Libraries are dying a death, thanks to the internet.

OP, I am with you on this one. YANBU.Smile

PrincessBoo · 07/01/2011 17:58

Oh and yes I think a sneery 'God almighty' is pretty nasty.

Smacks of smuggery and 'oh aren't I so perfect compared to you'.

PeeringIntoTheWintryVoid · 07/01/2011 18:01

PrincessBoo I don't think I've hung drawn and quartered her on here. As I've said a few times now, in retrospect I wish I'd handled it differently and been more helpful. I've got a quick (and sometimes sharp) tongue, and if I think someone is being out of order, then I tell them. But I do reflect on things a lot afterwards, and if I thing I've been in the wrong, then I'll admit it. I'll also always try to help someone who looks in need of it. I think if the dad hadn't been there to begin with (ie she'd been alone with them), I would have been more sympathetic and inclined to help.

narkypuffin · 07/01/2011 18:02

20 minutes of them running riot in a library whilst two parents did sod all? "God Almighty!" sounds pretty restrained to me.

skydance · 07/01/2011 18:02

I completly agree princessboo, just what I was thinking, that poor woman, I really hope you haven't put her off ever trying to go to the library again op.

She sounds like she was really struggling and she did care, she told them several times to be quiet, her saying she didn't care was a direct response to your rudeness, she was probably really embrassed but trying to fill in the form at the same time, you don't know that the dad was the man she was talking to at all, you said that you didn't see him again, maybe it was just someone she knew then.

You stood with your one daughter and judged her, I think you were very rude and mean. The behaviour wasn't acceptable but have a heart for the poor woman who was having a bad day. She was signing her children up for the libaray, a good thing for their future surely.

PeeringIntoTheWintryVoid · 07/01/2011 18:03

No Princess - the 'god almighty' smacked of 'fucking hell my head is about to explode with the pitch of that scream, I wish you'd fucking well shut your child up'. I'm certainly not perfect! Grin

PrincessBoo · 07/01/2011 18:06

My husband says that getting rid of the computers is what would rid libraries of most of the anti social behaviour that goes on there. That said, the last time they had to call the police because soemone's behaviour was out of hand, it was because of the actions of an adult, not a teen.

I think that my husband would have dealt with the situation in an assertive and non confrontational way (because he is ace :o). Saying 'God almighty' or suchlike just gets people's backs up.

charliesmommy · 07/01/2011 18:06

"she told them several times to be quiet"

did she? I missed that bit in the op.... pity she didnt excuse herself from the desk and go over to them to tell them in more certain terms to behave..

or perhaps she should take her poor little darlings to the docs next for a hearing test...

PeeringIntoTheWintryVoid · 07/01/2011 18:07

skydance the mum wasn't talking to the man I assumed to be the dad. He was standing some distance from her, but watching her and the children. When the children were running around (and the little one shrieking), he told them to be quiet a couple of times, but didn't attempt to enforce it by restraining/distracting/removing them.

PeeringIntoTheWintryVoid · 07/01/2011 18:12

"Saying 'God almighty' or suchlike just gets people's backs up."

I accept that Princess - at that point my back was well and truly up, and I didn't give a toss if I put hers up too.

As I said, on reflection, I wish I'd handled it differently. And I hope I haven't put her off going to the library again.

PeeringIntoTheWintryVoid · 07/01/2011 18:14

Charliesmommy "pity she didnt excuse herself from the desk and go over to them to tell them in more certain terms to behave.."

Those were my thoughts exactly.

saintknickerless · 07/01/2011 18:15

If it wasn't for children most libraries would close, as hardly anyone uses them anymore, so libraries have to be child friendly. Our library has a childrens area with noisy instruments, noisy books, giant games like snakes and ladders with giant dice, giant connect 4, giant blocks for building/knocking over towers, songtime, a huge mat with toy cars, kids crafts etc - you would love it!
Seriously if the noise of kids having fun winds you up so much I don't know how you manage to leave the house!
YABVU.

bupcakesandcunting · 07/01/2011 18:21

"Goats don't really need to learn how to swim though do they?"

Well, they might. You never know these days. Wink Really, I was just making a point of saying it's silly to say that things are in danger of shutting down so we should be grateful they're being mistreated.

OP, stop justifying yourself to people. You weren't ott or aggressive. You reacted in a way a lot of people would, myself included. Bloody poor woman, I hope OP hasn't put her off returning to the library indeed. Hmm More likely that this woman and her brood of delinquents has put others off returning to the library if library's are now soft-play areas with books and tutting.

bupcakesandcunting · 07/01/2011 18:23

Agree with charliesmommy. If I am busy doing something when out and DS starts showing himself up, which is more often than not nowadays, I will stop what I am doing and have a talk to him about maybe stopping what he is doing unless he wants to go home immediately. Especially if I am mindful that his theatrics might be irritating others. Usually works.

PrincessBoo · 07/01/2011 18:25

Ok then YABU for saying 'God Almighty'

YANBU for expecting the librarian to have a quiet word - but as we don't know what happened afterwards that might not have been necessary. The Mum did attempt to 'shush' her children, but maybe she wasn't wanting to shout or escalate things further. Maybe she was exhausted. A sympathetic smile may have gone a lot further in giving her the energy to go and deal with the behaviour of her kids.

PrincessBoo · 07/01/2011 18:26

and just out of interest- how many people on this thread have 4 kids? I've only got one and he's exhausting at times!

bupcakesandcunting · 07/01/2011 18:36

If you can't control your 4 kids, that's your problem, not the problem of the rest of the planet earth. The rest of earth didn't make you have 4 kids, you choose how many kids you have. Take responsibility for your choices. I find it difficult to control my one sometimes, yes, but I don't just think "oh sod it, too difficult so not going to try." If you opt to become a parent, stands to reason that you might be expected to actually do some parenting.

Goldenbear · 07/01/2011 18:36

I can see your point but when I joined a library last year with my toddler we were waiting at the helpdesk and he was being a little boisterous so I asked him to be a bit quieter as we were in a library. The librarian interupted me and said that it wasn't that kind of library, where users of the library had to be quiet and especially not children! Indeed, in the children's section of the library they do provide toys and soft cubes which does encourage a playfulness around the books that does reinforce this shift in attitude. Equally, they have screens up in the main library with updates of bus times. I find this odd but I suppose only because the idea of what a library should be like remains with you from childhood so perhaps this is why this scenario seemed intolerable to you?

libbyssister · 07/01/2011 18:40

YABU. Given the fact that libraries are struggling to stay open in the face of cuts by local government and lack of lenders, you should be encouraging everyone to be there, joining the library and helping to create a welcoming atmosphere. Use it or lose it as they say!

I have three DSs and go to my local library regularly. DS1 is 5 and perfectly well behaved. DS2 is 2 years old and will sometimes trot about a bit when we first arrive. If you try to stop him he starts shrieking and running faster so it's best to let him get it out of his system. He only does this while I'm waiting at the desk to return books. He's not badly behaved "just two" like the woman in your library said. He's also a very keen lender of books and I hope that I am establishing a lifetime's love of books in him. This is incredibly important, especially in boys. DS3 is 5 months old and will sometimes scream in his pram while we're there but I try to keep him calm, while trying to catch the 2 year old and show an interest in my 5 year old's book choices.

It can be stressful and isn't made any easier by people like you staring daggers and making comments. Once when I was in the library and my DH was with the children, DS2 ran by and the woman next to me at a shelf said "Anyone got a machine gun?". It's just so unnecessary.

Stop having a go and be more supportive of other parents. We're all just trying to do our best and get through the day!

bupcakesandcunting · 07/01/2011 18:48

We don't have to be supportive of every single parent just because we too are parents. It doesn't work like that. If you saw a parent hitting their child to discipline them, would you just give them a knowing smile, because they're just trying to get through the day?

mitochondria · 07/01/2011 18:53

Our library has just been revamped.

We went to the childrens section just after it opened. They had little car shaped seats with wheels on. Children were whizzing around the floor at high speed.

They weren't there the next time we went.

Adversecamber · 07/01/2011 19:01

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