To leave 5 1/2 month old to cry?

[Ghostie]

I'm feeling really stressed about this, so please be gentle!! Basically we were getting no sleep at all I was up and down every 30mins to an hour and it was driving me crazy, as well as leaving me just totally exhausted! DD kept pulling her dummy out all night and she wasn't crying, just shouting out and once we put her in bed with us she would go to sleep, so I figured she just wanted attention.

She is a big strong baby, so in the end we got in a night nanny to get us some rest and give us a break and more than that we wanted to get some help to sleep train her and were told that she would sleep within a week.

It all seemed to be going well and we had the night nanny for 4 nights, she got us to get rid of her dummy and doing a split feed before bed, to try and get more calories into her before she goes to sleep. Now, she is still waking up 2/3 times a night and crying for long periods from 5am. All the books and the advice we've been given say that leaving them to cry works, that they're not upset, but getting out of bad habbits and that it takes a few days. But, she still seems to be crying after nearly two weeks and I am finding it really distressing and wonder if I am doing the right thing? She is also crying for quite a long time before she goes to sleep for her naps.

Sorry if this is a bit long winded. Please let me know if you have had similar experiences/this has worked for you?

She's too little to be left to cry IMO. I have 2 children who were really both appalling sleepers as babies and I was crazy with sleep deprivation. DS was a total velcro baby and DD, although she would be OK being put down in the day, she wanted me at night. I ended up with both of them in the bed with us - they are little more than babies and they want their mum. That's all there is to it and I would put the baby in bed with you personally. She is just a little baby who wants you - help her.

Your poor baby. Pick her up, feed her cuddle her in bed with you.

Smell the top of her beautiful head. Lie with her and enjoy her being with you.

Get rid of the night nanny and just sleep with her in your arms. She needs you and you are the only one to fulfill her needs.

OP you are implying that your baby is being manipulative by wanting to be in your bed at night.

The thing is, young babies just don't have the cognitive development to be manipulative - they don't have the ability to think 'if I squawk enough I can sleep with mum and that's nice'. They are much more base creatures, and are more reactive than proactive. They get hungry, they cry. They want comfort, they cry. They are tired, cold, wet, dirty, uncomfortable - they cry.

Her night time crying is reactive, whether she is hungry, tired, lonely etc. As she develops cognitively you can work on modifying her behaviour, but not yet. For now you need to respond to her immediate needs and her night time waking is for a reason, but it might be a reason you don't fully understand. You just need to deal with it so you can all get some sleep!

YABU because she is only 5 months. I have NEVER read a book that says cc is ok at 5 months (and I've read quite a few in my own struggle to get some sleep). Leaving her to have a little cry for 5 minutes is quite different.

Even worse it's not worked after 2 weeks. IMO that is more than long enough to try it.

So she sleeps happily in your bed without feeding and continues to gain weight? To me this means this is not about hunger but comfort of some sort. Lonely? Scared? Cold?

If you don't want her in your bed, can you put her cot right next to your bed? Give her the dummy back if it helped! Doesn't sound like it made much difference. Worry about bad habits later (if they even develop) and worry about getting sleep now.

'I love my DD dearly and am trying to find a solution that helps her sleep, which is not as easy as just putting her in bed with us or cuddling her.'

Yes it is!

OP - I think you've probably disregarded most of the posts here but I will give you £100 if you let your baby sleep with you for the next few months and she develops a 'habit that is hard to break' as lucybrad reckons. She is a baby.

I do wish people would stop thinking that babies have the same cognitive abilities as a child. They don't.

Agreed ladybiscuit

OP please reconsider your stance

It is damaging to baby :-(

Told she would "sleep within a week" ha ha have you been on the sleep threads on here?! If it was that easy they wouldn't exist. But actually there are thousands of new mummies like you desperate for the holy grail that is a nights sleep.

Seriously, the sleep threads are good. If nothing else so that you will know your baby is very normal.

BTW worst case scenario is that when they are 2 they are old enough to be threatened bribed to go to bed and stay there. She wont be in your bed when she's 13, unless you want her to be.

Those advocating co-sleeping - it just doesn't work for some people. I simply COULD NOT co-sleep with a baby, because I would get no sleep, being terrified of rolling on the baby and smothering it. Even without having the baby in the bed, I wake up with a start, thinking the baby is in there, and start panicking - where's the baby, where's the baby???? And ds2 always comes in to us still at around 1 or 2 in the morning, and is very active in the bed.

Co-Sleeping can also cause problems with tooth decay - with milk pooling in the mouth. I know of children who have really suffered from this.

So co-sleeping is great when it works, but it just isn't for everyone.

My DD is 7.5 mo and I miss the days when I could bring her into bed with me at 5am and she would go back to sleep.
In my opinion there is nothing nicer than a sleepy cuddle with your baby.

I'm not one for full time co sleeping (though each to their own, it's just not for me) but how does an hour or so at the end of the night do any harm.

I agree with 99.9% of posters who have said please don't leave her to cry. You've given it a good (if that's the right word) shot and it clearly isn't working if she is still crying for long periods.
She's your baby and she needs comfort of some sort. In a flash she'll be so much older and won't want cuddles from mummy and you will miss the yummy sleepy milky baby cuddles.

I do feel for you re the sleep deprivation. But I don't think leaving your baby to cry for so long is the answer. And from your op it seems to have distressed both you and your baby and achieved nothing.

Please listen to the advice here - she is only a baby. We have all been there and still are! This is part of having a baby. Most days I feel insane from lack of sleep but my baby needs me and your baby needs you.

I know so many unhappy toddlers who were left to cry like this, there must be a link..,

My lo is 7 months and doesn't have a night feed now - she's bigger than the OP's lo and so I do tend to agree it's not all about size and being hungry - it's very individual to the baby and his/her needs.

To encourage her to drop the night feed (which was around 4-5am) I started to pop the dummy in and soothe her back off to sleep rather than feed her when she woke - and gradually ended up feeding her later and later - she now often sleeps to 7-8am although sometimes 6-7am which is ok. I think my lo was waking from habit rather than hunger.

It sounds like baby needs to learn to self-settle, maybe try the "pick up put down" method for a week to see if that helps. Silly question but is baby warm enough at night/daytime naps now the weather has changed? Despite recommendations I had to put my lo in long sleeved vest, pyjamas and 2.5 tog bag and our bedroom is around 19-20 degrees so she "shouldn't" need that much!

Maybe you could try this to start with (dummy or comforter) - just to see if it's habit rather than hunger x

Best of luck (and don't be panicked by the "anti CC" posts - you are not cruel for heaven sake!)

I think it's fair to say that to leave a child crying in distress is unfair, but some babies do cry because they are tired. Dd does, and ds used to. I found that if I leave her in her cot (whether I stroke her hair or if I leave the room) she takes about 5-10 mins to go to sleep. If I keep picking her up and cuddling then putting her down it can take up to an hour. If the crying goes on for a long time then she probably does need you for whatever reason. Also, lily bolero, your description of a night with a wakeful baby sounds like every night for me, well put! And not fair at all to flame the OP - sleep deprivation is hard, and different things work for different babies.

My DS is 3 and in with us - at the minute. Sometimes he is in his bed, but we don't mind to be honest! he is the most confident little boy and very happy.

He was a very very very poor sleeper. I can remember him being that age and us being at our wits end (up until then he had slept happily next to me in his moses basket) and then we decided he would just come in with us and that was that - sleep! Pure brilliant sleep, bliss

Before that I was a zombie, I thought I would never sleep again.

He is not at all clingy, very independant, never had a dummy, has no security toy/blanket (or ever has had) and is in no bad habit as far as I am concerned. We never left him to cry - he was always with us wherever we were - often asleep.

BUT we do have a happy stress free sleep filled household something maybe bearing in mind. Though I know it's not for everyone. we are not hippies btw and are both firm parents in other ways - DS would not dare to not do what I ask lol. He is good as gold now! But will also say he is still not a long sleeper - avg 9 hours at best and he has never needed much sleep.

I'll let my DD cry for a bit now- actually she just woke up and cried for 5 minutes before going back to sleep. But she's 22 mo now and more aware of the fact that she's supposed to sleep at night plus I can distinguish between pissed-off cry and tired cry and distressed cry etc. But even now, should she go on for more than few minutes, I would go and check on her- she could be ill, teething, thirsty, scared etc.

Btw, we co-slept for a while, then I would take her in at one am for bf to my bed and she would spend the rest of the night with us and then she started to sleep in her cot all night long. She's a very good sleeper now and has been for many months, so actually responding to your baby's needs doesn't mean she will never learn to fall asleep on her own or sleep through the night.

In any case, most paediatricians and baby experts do not recommend any kind of sleep training before 1 yo. At 5 months you should always respond to your baby (unless it's the 3 minute grumble thing) and you also shouldn't expect her to go through the night without a feed-all babies differ in that. Most importantly, she needs to know that if she wakes up and is distressed her parents will come to her.

"I have quite a selection of books (from Gina Ford and Supernanny to Penelope Leach and NCSS) and none of them say to leave a 5 month old to cry."

Well GF sort of does in that she tells you to leave the baby to self settle and gives you no further advice on how to get them to sleep. If only it were really as simple as

"put baby swaddled in cot for a nap."

Cue screaming. Er....... then what? Gina? Gina?

Rachel Waddilove also says it's ok to leave them to "shout" for a bit, and advocates sleep training (CC/CIO)from 6 mths.

I agree with taking the dummy btw. DS had one from birth which was a godsend, but now at 3 mths he knocks it out with his hands, but (obviously) cant put it back in himself so it's actually hindering rather than helping sleep, so it's gone (except in public emergencies).

I think the weight/big baby confusion comes from the fact that many paediatricians say that an 11lb baby is "metabolically capable" of sleeping through (by which they mean 6 hrs). i.e. a baby under that weight is unlikely to be able to sleep through however well they eat during the day, whereas by 11lbs they should be able to take on enough calories in the day to sleep for 6hrs. Whether they do or not obviously depends on lots of things, and coming up to weaning is likely to be a factor.

Ok FYI, I hadn't made my mind up, was genuinely torn between two different pulls, things I was being told and my instincts not to leave her for more than a few mins to see if she could settle herself and in fact had made the decision that I'm not leaving her to cry, other than some tired getting to sleep crying for a few mins, as MoonAlphaUnit said.

I got rid of the dummy because it was frustrating her and keeping her awake all night because she was pulling it out and then could find it or get it back in again. She instantly slept much better without it and didn't seem to miss it. I'd rather get rid of it now, when she hasn't noticed it, than when she's older and she finds it really difficult. In fact we didn't want to use dummy originally, but did to help sooth her colic.

Last night she slept from 7 to 2ish (with the odd grumble for a min or two, before I could even get to her she had stopped and gone back to sleep) and then 2-6.15 No crying and she was very happy.

Well done

Oops - hit post a bit too early there! I was going to say, well done for not going completely loopy at all the flamers on this thread. I, like you, was going a really hard time through lack of sleep when DD1 was about 5.5 months old - waking every hour on the hour. Sleep deprivation is hard, and although most mothers go through it, I think it's not very helpful to say "buck up, having a baby is hard, just deal with it".

I left DD1 to cry in a pick up, put down watered down version of CC at this age, and she slept through on day 3. She was a happier baby, I was a happier mother. I never admitted to anyone that I had done this as I didn't want to be labelled as "cruel". I know people on this thread might come back and say "well, it hasn't worked over 2 weeks - so stop trying and just take her into bed with you" - and I would say this just doesn't work for some mothers / families. You create more problems than you solve, sometimes.

Some cyring worked for us, and it looks like your baby is coming around as well. Only you know what works best - trust your instinct, and next time, I would post in Sleep rather than AIBU!

Just snuggle her in with you and go back to sleep. It will be easier now and when she is a big girl who is far to busy for you you will be really happy you had the cuddles when you could get them.

Don't leave her to cry like that it is cruel and pointless, all you are teaching her is that regardless of how upset/hungry/cold/uncomfortable/scared she is you don't care and will not come.

I agree with Morloth - before you know it your baby will be a toddler and you'll wish you cuddled her more (not that you don't, but ykwim!).

My son is the same age, and has three naps a say, sometimes in his cot, sometimes on me. All the books say not to let him sleep on you, but I figure, wtf, he's m boy. We both get to share a lovely moment and I believe it reinforces his security and feelings of love.

Anyway - do what you have to do, but as many people say here, leaving her to cry could make it worse, not better, as your baby is simply wanting her mum!! She's not capable of sleeping very long yet, so just get in there and give her a cuddle!

Good luck. xx

LilyBolero, I don't know why you think that milk is more likely to pool in a baby's mouth if they're co-sleeping. I always sat up to feed and then put the baby back down so no more likely than if he were sleeping in a cot

I cannot imagine my maternal instinct, which manifests as pity and acute frustration, would ever allow me to leave such a young baby to cry. Nothing sets me on edge more than one of my dcs unhappy.

OP, I hope you have given up reading these unsympathetic responses by now!

Oh come off it, they're not unsympathetic. Plenty have offered advice and things that have worked for them. Just cause you're not in agreement doesn't mean they should be written off or ignored! If they do, why bother posting?