To leave 5 1/2 month old to cry?

[Ghostie]

I'm feeling really stressed about this, so please be gentle!! Basically we were getting no sleep at all I was up and down every 30mins to an hour and it was driving me crazy, as well as leaving me just totally exhausted! DD kept pulling her dummy out all night and she wasn't crying, just shouting out and once we put her in bed with us she would go to sleep, so I figured she just wanted attention.

She is a big strong baby, so in the end we got in a night nanny to get us some rest and give us a break and more than that we wanted to get some help to sleep train her and were told that she would sleep within a week.

It all seemed to be going well and we had the night nanny for 4 nights, she got us to get rid of her dummy and doing a split feed before bed, to try and get more calories into her before she goes to sleep. Now, she is still waking up 2/3 times a night and crying for long periods from 5am. All the books and the advice we've been given say that leaving them to cry works, that they're not upset, but getting out of bad habbits and that it takes a few days. But, she still seems to be crying after nearly two weeks and I am finding it really distressing and wonder if I am doing the right thing? She is also crying for quite a long time before she goes to sleep for her naps.

Sorry if this is a bit long winded. Please let me know if you have had similar experiences/this has worked for you?

"All the books"

This is where you're going wrong, throw the bloody things away and follow your instincts. Once you realise that your baby is not some inanimate thing that must be forced onto a schedule you'll all be happier.

And wtf is wrong with a very young baby wanting attention ?

I had two babies who fed almost continuously (reflux) for eight months and whilst I don't want to shove a sanctimonious badge of honour down your throat leaving a baby to cry is cruel. I wonder what you think your baby is cryiong for that you don't want to give her, attention?

I believe that a baby has no behaviour until they're about 9 months,

I have quite a selection of books (from Gina Ford and Supernanny to Penelope Leach and NCSS) and none of them say to leave a 5 month old to cry.

"But if she is hungry, why will she go to sleep in our bed with out a feed? She is a big girl, 7.6kg and on 75th centile, so technically doesn't "need" feeding"

Wow, are you sure your baby's read the Gina Ford manual ? Doesn't sound like it. And clearly, if she is waking up and wanting milk, she is hungry. These books have a lot to answer for. Has it occurred to you that maybe she wakes alone, is scared and cries because she wants security ? this is why she sleeps happily with you, it's where she is biologically meant to be.

Hi Ghostie,

I have a five and a half month-old too and though I haven't had quite the same sleep deprivation as you, I know it can be very hard. My son doesn't sleep in the day which means I don't get time or a break to do anything.

He slept okay at night until recently - sleep regression is very common at 4months+. Now he wakes three times a night (which is still very good for some people) and I'm finding it harder to cope. But it's just about doable and I'm hoping it will ease with time and as he gets weaned.

If you've gone from getting up every half hour to 2/3 times per night, that's actually really good progress. I don't know that using controlled crying to improve that further is wise at this age - they are so young yet and I don't think they cry for attention really. Perhaps she's cold/hungry/in pain. Teething can be a big problem and I'm convinced it's a big part of the problem when my son is grizzly at the moment. I'd hate to think I was leaving him alone at night because I thought it was attention, but really he wanted a cuddle because he was in pain.

Tell yourself 'This too shall pass', try to share as much of the burden/getting up with your partner as possible, and the sleep will come in time. Or try sleep training again when she's a bit older.

I know this probably all sounds simplistic and/or patronising but it's really all we can do when they're so little.

Re. being big enough to not need a sleep - I've read this too. I think it means that at a certain weight they should have a large enough stomach to get enough calories stored in the daytime to get them through the night. In practice, though, some babies will still just end up hungry.

Good luck!

PS. And as my mum says, the babies don't read the books. If only they would!

Ghostie - I really sympathise with your sleep deprivation. It is torture, isn't it? However, I'm afraid 5am is a normal time for a little baby to wake up. Both of mine would wake at this age - it was no use leaving them because they weren't tired anymore. Also, if she settles in your bed, I would just bring her in with you, or maybe have her in a cot beside you (I know this is the current advice). If she is in bed with you, be really careful to make sure she can't go under the duvet or overheat and that neither of you has been drinking too much (!).

I have had two boys. It was utter hell with my first because he just wouldn't sleep. I kept him in bed with us for the first four or five months, then moved him to a cot and slept beside him (I was worried about cot death and had heard that it was good for a baby to have you with them). The sleep remained an issue and I still have my 'sleep diary', where I noted down his waking times so I could show the health visitor what he was doing. My sleepy scrawl shows how exhausted I was. Sometimes he was waking up as soon as I put him down and I was beyond looking for a reason anymore - I just wanted him to let me sleep.

I really don't think there is a lot you can do when they are 5 months. What you need to do is get sleep during the day when you can. My son (who was breastfed) continued to want a nightly feed for the first year at least. In the end, I used to breastfeed my son to sleep at midday and he learned to take a long nap then, which was when I would have my own nap. This enabled me to survive the disrupted nights. Teething is a real problem and caused lots of waking and crying. Calpol was often the answer to that.

The same thing happened with DS2, but I was better able to cope this time because I was expecting it. It was still hell and I often couldn't catch up on sleep during the day because I had another child, but the difference was that I knew this phase would end. I also used Medised when he was ill and blocked up with a cold, which I'm afraid they now won't prescribe for children under six because people were misusing it to get their babies to sleep. I was careful to only use it when he needed it, but it had the wonderful side effect that he slept well and I was guaranteed a few hours' sleep myself.

A friend of mine with a four-month-old baby feeds her son at about 5, then hands him over to her lovely, helpful husband and goes back to bed for two hours before getting up for the school run. I have to say my husband wasn't up for this at all, so I just struggled on, but I think this is the answer. You need to fit in with your baby and grab sleep where you can, rather than expect your baby to fit in with you.

Five months is a really tough time, I think. You are through the initial euphoria of having your wonderful new baby and the hard work is wearing you down. It seems relentless at the time. But it really will get better. Just hang on in there.

One last thing - I did have cranial osteopathy on my second son, which seemed to help a bit. An osteopath would say that babies sometimes suffer pain from birth trauma (not necessarily obvious trauma to us) and that they can realign the bones so that there are no aches and pains bothering them. It's worth a try.

Wow! I wasn't expecting quite such a reaction and thank you to those of you who haven't written me off as a terrible and cruel mother.

I think that I agree with you Lucybrad. My DD is being weaned, she loves eating and is having a mixture of breast and formula. This morning I fed her and she still cried she just didn't want to be put down. I agree, I don't think that it is right to leave a baby to just cry and cry, although I think that 5 mins ish, is often just her settling or re-settling herself to sleep.

However, I do think that babies learn habbits and when she was coming into bed with us she was waking up expecting to get into bed with us and I don't believe that is a habbit I want her to get into and harder to break later on. In fact I know lots of parent whose DCs are still in their beds until they are 3 to even 10! Then what happens when you have another DC? In fact how do you ever get to make another DC?

I love my DD dearly and am trying to find a solution that helps her sleep, which is not as easy as just putting her in bed with us or cuddling her...if that had been working I would have continued. We shall just keep going trying to keep her happy and loved.

Well, you are agreeing with the minority which is unusual for AIBU. Everyone bar one, maybe has said that they think the approach you are taking is not the best solution. My personal belief is that at their age there are no habits that can't be broken, but when they are tiny, dependent and unable to comprehend 'security' they're not ready. If she cries, she needs you. She's not be manipulative or any such tosh.

But this is a hugely emotive subject and we all just have to do what is right for us. And no-one wrote you off, all the responses have been trying to offer help or advice, they just obviously weren't the responses you were after.

Not at all, I wasn't looking for a particular response, there were some really interesting points, but also some just emotive statments. I have been thinking about them and discussing responses, which is always really helpful to think about other opinions and experiences. But, you are right NinkyNonker all of us in the end have to do what we think is best for our DCs in what is clearly a hugely emotive subject.

I've been having this very discussion with a friend who has a 4 wk old, hence being so 'in' this discussion! She reckons I am too much of an old softie, which is very true, so I hope in that context you won't feel attacked by anything I've said!

It is not unusual for some babies not to go through for more than four hours at the age of one, each baby is different, just because another of your children was different doesn;t mean there is something wrong wtih your baby.

I agree that leaving her to cry is wrong.

I also agree that taking her dummy away was a bad move, she clearly is still hungry for her to wake so often, babies need feeding, cuddling and changing, if they are settled there they sleep.

I don't want to get drawn into a debate about whether it is right or wrong to let her cry, I think you've already made your mind up about that one, but I would like to add that I have just taken away 5.5mth old ds2's dummy and within days (may be co-incidence, may not, but we'll never know) I have seen a marked improvement in his sleep. He now only wakes 4 to 5 times a night, instead of every hour. I believe dummies are great and they definitely have their place, but for ds2 (and incidentally ds1) he was too reliant on it and therefore everytime he went into a light phase of sleep, ie within 45 mins to an hour of dropping off, he would need it again but had always dropped it. I didn't feel this was doing him any good and was more of a hindrance than a comfort and therefore they've all gone in the bin.

Each to their own though, I appreciate that.

I am sorry but I find it really hard to think of babies crying

I have two bad sleepers - one is 3yrs old and the other is 15 months, but they are happy and secure and never really been left to cry and although it is hard for me, I believe that I chose to bring them into the world and I must do all I can for them. I also breastfeed the youngest still.

Yours is only a baby - have you read research on how bad it is to leave young babies to cry? How it affects their emotional development? Obviously, some people will disagree with this but it may be worth reading (try books by elizabeth pantley - i think called the no cry sleep solution) and then you can make up your own mind. I personally feel that some people are too obsessed with getting young babies to sleep. please consider reading about how leaving baby to cry can negatively affect them - even if you don't concur, at least you can say you have looked at different theories,

there has been a study into baby tears (sorry, can't place it at the top of my head) and they found stress hormones or something in those babies left to cry

good luck

lequeen is so right - there is a big difference in stress cry and grumbly cry

Big difference between a stressed cry and a grumbly cry, and also a big difference between crying alone/uncomforted and crying with someone there. Even if you're not doing what they want (taking them into your bed for example) just being there to reassure them they haven't been abandoned is important imo.

Why bother posting in the first place.

It sounds as tho' you are going to carry on regardless and let your baby cry.

Pick her up ffs. What is so wrong in that?

I had 3 children under two. 2.1, 15 month old and a new born. My husband was working in Dubai and I would have swapped my situation for yours any day of the week.

My oldest 7 went to bed at 7, then the baby would start with colic for 3 hrs. Awful. The my 15mth old would wake at 11, then baby at 2 then again at about 5/6ish and 15 mth old woke at 5 every day. She is 3.6 now and is still an early riser.

I have never left any of mine to cry for long periods of time. I'm their mother, why would I.

Oldest 2 not 7.

Put her in bed with you. it's clearly what she wants (and needs, if she feels so strongly about this that she is going to the effort of screaming her lungs out for it.)

Once you get over the weird idea that she has to sleep apart from you, you'll realise she doesn't sleep that badly after all.

Ds2 was easily out of my bed by 14 months. he just dind't need to be there any more. But UNTIL then, he did need to be there.

yabvu

erm... baby could be having a growth spurt, at 6 months they are more bonded to you and sometimes just wake up and miss you, also - its bloody cold right now - I have been waking at 4.30 / 5am because its bloody freezing and the heating hasnt kicked in yet.

Why not just go with it - she is very little, it is hard right now, but in time it will pass. Give her all the extra food / cuddles / warmth she needs - she is a BABY

Oh yeah and its a prime teething age - she could have a lot of pressure adn soreness from her teeth coming through

It's true that there are lots of 'cries' and it depends how you define them and can recognise them. DD will 'grizzle' or make meepy kind of cries when she is tired...most of the time she will just fall asleep, but I tend to be sitting just out of sight ready to put a hand on the side of her face to help her drop off properly if it looks like she will escalate. This avoids actual crying, which I don't think does her or me any good.

She has only actually cried once or twice, mainly in the last week or so as she is teething but apart from that only on the odd occassion that she is completely overtired. At this point she needs help, in the form of a tight cuddle, rocking, gentle shushing etc. I'm sure some would say if we left her to cry she'd fall asleep through exhaustion or defeat, not a great result. I do think that by responding to her snuffles and grizzles quickly it has helped teach her that she doesn't need to cry, so she doesn't cry often if you see what I mean. Maybe I'm just being an optimist!

I feel like DD isn't sleeping well at the moment, but she is to be fair. She has added in an extra feed, I think due to the growth spurt at this age and is waking at 5 to 530ish, but that is normal for her age. Bringing her in with us really doesn't hurt, and if you can see past the slightly artificial demand for independence we all seem to put on our babies so young it is very normal, IMO.