to think that size 12 isn't large?

[wussbird]

Well am I?

Just looked on seraphine.co.uk for a maternity top I saw in a magazine and they have it in small, medium and large.

The large is a size 12-14!

12/14 is large on most frames, even if it's not obese. Vanity sizing is contributing to increasing obesity. 20 years ago you would need to go to Evans Outsize for anything above a 14. People were generally thinner then...

M&S 12 is large. Miss Selfridge 12 is tiny.

I'm generally a 12 in the UK but an XL in Turkey and XXL in Thailand.

I don't think 12 is large. 12 should a medium IMO!

I would have thought standard would be:

8-10 S
12-14 M
16-18 L

Trillian

proudfoot - that seems sensible - but if you consider that the current size 12 = the old size 16, then current 12-14 IS old 16-18 and is therefore large.

I don't like it, and I particularly don't like the fact that it means women's clothes also go into XL, XXL and probably XXXL as well. Men's versions of those are huge! Whereas, as I said upthread, a Chinese XXL fits me just fine! :(

proudfoot your sizing makes sense but I hate it because I think it's annoying to have SML when you should have 6 different sizes - when you have 8-10 and 12-14 what do people do who are a size 10-12? More sizes = more chance that one will fit you.

The difference in sizing over the last 20 years or so isn't just to do with vanity sizing. It's also because people are just bigger in terms of bone structure - women in particular are taller, have broader shoulders and wider hips. So people who are very slim (as in have very little fat, low bmi) would still struggle to fit into old fashioned size 10s.

Im 5ft 4in, with a good bottom and slim legs, so ive been told
In bettween a 12 & 14 at the mo which is a real pain either slightly too small or to big, jeans/skirt/trousers wise.

But Top heavy, 38dd boobs which is approx size 18 for comfort, as I dont like 'tight, fitted or reaveling'

As for xs, s, m, l, xl, xxl, blah blah blah, wot the h*ll?

FLF - the difference in bone structure over the last 20 years is miniscule. Most of the difference is fat.

I do like their clothes though

I've put on a stone this year I'm now a size 12 which is me at my fattest! I hate, hate, hate it.

I have a fat tummy, saddlebags and a fat face.

So for me, size 12 is fat. For someone a bit taller it's probably fine.

I'm a greedy 5ft 5 and should really be a size 10.

I'm a size 12 and I'm not fat. But then I am 5.10"

If I was 5.0 and a size 12 I might look a bit rounder.

I'm a size 12 and I'm not fat. But then I am 5.10"

If I was 5.0 and a size 12 I might look a bit rounder.

I agree that sizing is now larger than it used to be - I even have a size 8 M & S skirt, but am not a size 8. Size 12 is still not large though. I am a 10/12 and at 5'7" look skinny.

Sizing has definitely changed. I used to be a whisker over 7 stone, but with oversized boobs, and I wore a 10. These days I'd probably be a 6 if I was the same size, but I'm a fat old trout now, sadly. A fat vain old trout, who persists in wearing one particular size 10 M&S skirt just because it has a 10 on the label. Probably a mistake: the rest of my wardrobe's a 14/16. As a former skinny, it's definitely depressing to see a 12 that won't fit me with a 'large' label attached.

what a non-discussion.

I am just over 6 ft.

size 12 for me is never never fat!

ludicrous.

I could gain a stone and still have healthy BMI

ludicrous debate, stop making tall people feel bad.

I've yet to meet a woman who would be sad to go from a size 12+ to a size 8-10. Based on this I think most ladies despite what they say, secretly realise that 12+ is fat.

I'm 5'0 - and a big size 8/small size 10 - and I look like I've got weight to shift. Someone my height with my structure would look large as a size 12.

Are their clothes designed for short women?

12+ isn't necessarily fat. As previously mentioned, it depends on BMI/height. The push to smaller sizes is a response to ridiculous media potrayals of sexy meaning stick insect/lollipops.

FakePlastic, I think you are right.

I've been in relationships with 2 ladies who are around your height. One is the mother of my kids. She's about a size 10 which is fine but she does look a bit big. Her sister is probably about a size 14 and looks like a roly poly.

Another exGF is/was a size 6. Her body was perfect (IMO). Unfortunately it was a nightmare buying clothes for her as size 6 petite is not something easily found in the UK!

I think FLF has it right. I'm a 12 but sometimes have to buy size 14 tops as they won't fit across the shoulders. They're then baggy at the front because I have no boobs.

I think we're generally a bit less curvy and more muscular than we used to be. In the olden days, people dieted but almost nobody went to a gym.

I think most of us in the UK, men and women, carry an extra stone or two, including me. After living in Turkey, one of the things I noticed from walking down the street in the UK, was how comparatively fat we were. Especially young people.

FLF, I think you are right to an extent, it does make a difference. I have very little body fat and a BMI of around 20, but have 37" hips which I don't think would ever go much smaller than that because that's the size of my pelvis!

However clothes sizes have changed such a huge amount, even in the past few years. In the late 90s, I weighed around 8 stone (am 5'8") and I was a size 10-12. I would never, ever have fitted in size 10 Topshop jeans, but I do now, even though I am just over a stone heavier than I was then.

I do find it worrying. I have lost quite a lot of weight in the past few years, and have been told recently that I've "gone too far" and look gaunt and even ill! Cheers guys! Before I lost the weight, I was overweight - I am now towards the lower end of normal. I would say far from size 0 changing our perceptions of what's normal, the fact that there are now so many obese people has changed our view of what is normal. Years ago you simply didn't see so many people, especially young people, who were size 18/20+ and so people who were on the low end of average weight were not considered to be stick insects.

It is very hard with all these conflicting messages, as I know because I've been on both sides of the fence, so to speak. But I do find it worrying that being overweight is being normalised. It is dangerous and unhealthy.