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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder if these riots will change anything?

279 replies

poshsinglemum · 09/12/2010 22:17

I think it's getting totally out of hand. I think that HE should be accesable but that's what the students loan company is for-no? i have no money; I have a student loan. When I start to earn enough again I shall continue to pay it back.
I have no problem with demos but attacking a car etc is not helping the cause.

OP posts:
funnyperson · 10/12/2010 15:21

What do people think of the libdem this morning who said that he thought a lot of his party MPs voted for higher tuition fees because they wanted the coalition to 'appear strong'. Am I the only one who doesnt really get this? Shouldn't an MP be voting on the issue ie fees, not on whether the coalition should or shouldn't be seen to be strong. I am not politically naiive but I would like to know what others think

blueberrycustard · 10/12/2010 15:35

jackstarlightstarbright - Thanks, will look into it! Do you by any chance know how much the fees are at the moment in the Netherlands?

christmaseve · 10/12/2010 16:05

So a rich kid should be protesting because they won't have to carry such debt. Well neither will about 80% of the other protesters, they are in the current system, you know the one that cost a lot less.

Pheasant · 10/12/2010 16:12

US system is totally different. Their bursaries are because of the huge amount of philanthropic giving which simply doesn't happen here. People want to give something back to the institution that gave them a chance in life. We just don't think like that - we think we should get it for free!

christmaseve · 10/12/2010 16:14

I meant to say 'should not' Blush

jackstarlightstarbright · 10/12/2010 16:37

Blueberry - sorry no idea on fees. I heard on the radio that Maastricht Uni had applied to join ucas. They were turned down - but are obviously keen on UK students.

Worth a google Smile

sarah293 · 10/12/2010 16:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

twinterror · 10/12/2010 16:49

beauty spot

you can't even spell grammar...so who are you to criticise anyone else

twinterror · 10/12/2010 16:52

What a load of reactionary rubbish is on here.

yes we need to save money on higher education -what about making courses that are 7 hours per week contact time (most humanities) 2 years rather than 3 years - there's a 30% reduction for a start. Then reduce the number of places so those with 2 grade Es can do something else.

leaving those that are academic a free education and not put off poorer talented students from going to uni.

there are choices here about how uni is funded and those being chosed are not the right ones.

i think most people on here saying 'why should I pay for someone to go to uni' haven't been themselves - not got the brains darling.

as for those protesting on the streets - go for it - the lib dems sold out on their commitment. the coalition have been in power for 6 months and there's riots on the streets of london - what does that tell you...

usualsuspect · 10/12/2010 16:54

'the coalition have been in power for 6 months and there's riots on the streets of london - what does that tell you'

Exactly

Luz09 · 10/12/2010 16:54

Gah, I'd love to know how many people on here who are decrying the students as inarticulate and mindless were media savvy paragons of virtue at their age.

These are real young people who haven't been media trained struggling to express just how unfair a GOVERNMENT policy which encourgages young people (your kids btw as current kids won't likely be affected) to take on unimaginable debt before they've even begun their working lives actually is.

Young people are daft - I know I certainly was at that age but am now a respectable boring parent. Only a small minority (possibly not many of them even students) caused the stupid violence.

I think any of you suggesting that 6-9k per year is fair should feel utterly ashamed of how easily you have swallowed the rubbish the coalition is spouting about 'there is no other way'.

I have worked in social policy and know that there are always many alternatives. A contribution by students is only fair but the level of funding cuts in HE is purely ideological and being perpetrated by a cabinet full of people who will never have to pay nor would they struggle to if they did have to.

Cutting EMA is even more despicable. If Philip Green's wife paid 50% tax on her recent £1bn dividend formed from profit in the UK she would be able to fund virtually every EMA student who claimed in 2010.

All this crap about 'why should I pay for someone else to benefit when I'm never going to earn as much/or didn't go to uni' is utter rubbish as well. Everyone benefits from everyone else. I pay 40% tax when i work full time and don't begrudge the fact that this subsidises lower paid worker's child benefit/tax credits/council tax benefit/pensions. This is what a modern civilised society is all about. Do you want to live in a country like America where 10 year old boys die from dental abcesses because their parents can't afford health insurance?? Thought not.

Phew, rant over... (39+1 weeks pregnant and finding it hard to stay calm about anything at moment :))

usualsuspect · 10/12/2010 16:57

The EMA cuts will have a massive impact on the number of poorer kids staying on at school..its a fucking disgrace

Gogopops · 10/12/2010 16:59

Well said Giddypickle - I couldn't agree more. University education is not a right that everyone else should be paying for.

I can't understand how these morons would want to hurt the police horses and they no longer have my sympathy.

babycuckoo · 10/12/2010 17:01

The funny (although ob not so funny) thing is, that as no one pays up front and it is now accepted fees will actually be £9000 not £6000 as universities cannot afford the lower fees, the money actually will make our deficit higher. The money not paid back from students who cant afford it will come from - the taxpayer! So even if you think students should pay these huge fees, the chances are in the long run all taxpayers will!!!!

babycuckoo · 10/12/2010 17:06

Luz09 totally agree with all you said, well put!!!! Good luck xx

30andMerkin · 10/12/2010 17:11
Luz09 · 10/12/2010 17:12

Thanks babycuckoo - better start saving for this one's higher education now!

GiddyPickle · 10/12/2010 17:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Takver · 10/12/2010 17:37

Luz, that is a really good comment.

I think the other really important thing to remember is that this is about democracy, as much as fees.

The Lib Dems made an absolute pledge that they would vote against any increase in tuition fees.

Lots of students, and other people, voted for them on the basis of that promise. Those people, and the Lib Dems, knew that they would not be forming a government, but thought it likely that they would end up holding the balance of power.

When a political party makes a black and white promise, to get votes, and then goes back on that once they have power, then it is not surprising to me that you see people out on the streets rioting.

I agree, violence is wrong, though in the main what the protestors were guilty of is vandalism. But undermining the basis of our representative democracy is also wrong.

babycuckoo · 10/12/2010 17:43

Have to have my say, it is good to debate this subject as many people have very strong views, however, been mulling it over as to whether to chip in or not. Totally understand that people have been upset by the violence especially towards the horses! I too an an animal lover and hated seeing things lobbed at them, Im also a mother to three and the eldest will be going to university in a couple of years, have read some posts about useless degrees etc, but how does that relate in real life? She is desperate to study History, where would that lead her? I dont know, but I do know that is a passion of hers, do I stiffle it and tell her to do a degree that is more likely to get her a job so she can pay of her loans? or do I encourage her passion? Same with stepson, wants to design cars, shall I stop his dream as well? Or encourage him that anything is possible?

I done a sensible degree, teaching, christ now I wish I hadnt, been out of the classroom for a couple of years, and could never go back without breaking out into a cold sweat.

DH is deputy vice chancellor of a london university and is totally dismayed by this, the figures do not add up and unfortunately many courses are going to finish and many lecturers are going to lose their jobs.

Ob this is a very emotive issue, the actual fee rise, job loses, people feeling stabbed in the back by the lib dems etc. So people are protesting, sometimes you have to stand up and be counted, obs terrible by a few who do not help, but the majority are peaceful protesters, which need to carry on. That is one of the great things about this country, we do not have to lie down and take what the government says, we can argue back just like many protests in the past, where would we be without the poll tax rioters, sufferagettes etc!

twinterror · 10/12/2010 17:59

Graduates are the people that teach, become doctors, become scientists etc etc. Why should you pay for someone else to go to uni? Perhaps because you may one day need the services of a doctor/teacher/lawyer/dentist/a drug developed by a scientist, to live in a house designed by an architect, to live in a town designed by a town planner, to drive on a road built by a structural engineer etc etc.

that's why society should fund higher education. that's why we need to find better ways to fund it than 'pay as you go'. thats why those of you saying' why should I pay?' should reconsider. Because like it or not - you do need graduates and you use their services every flipping day!

I Agree with Luz09

the argument 'why should I pay for someone else to go to uni' can equally be applied to any other service that has an element of funding by the state e.g

people who dont have a social worker - why should they pay for that

people who dont live in a council house - ditto

people who don't use the nhs - ditto

people who don't drive on motorways, people who dont use public transport, people who don't use public funded education, people who dont go to libraries, or museums, or use meals on wheels, or who dont call the police or use an ambulance or who have never needed the fire brigade...

do you really want a 'pay as you go' society? Graduates tend to earn more ipso facto they pay more taxes anyway and so we all benefit from graduates.

twinterror · 10/12/2010 18:00

giddypickle

why can't the possibility of making some (not all, but some where appropriate) degrees be for 2 years not 3 be considered? I could easily have done mine in 2 years

expatinscotland · 10/12/2010 18:12

'do you really want a 'pay as you go' society?'

Can we really afford otherwise if we're expecting more and more people to go to university, because that's one of the real problems, it used to be that only a smallish percentage of school leavers went to university.

This is still the case in many European nations which still use grant systems, either that or they pay much much higher taxes.

It's like the pension crisis - too many people needing too much money that just isn't there.

somersmom · 10/12/2010 18:13

I know I'll probably not be in tune with most people here but I have actually been surprised by how articulate most of the young people have been.

It was a shame about the vandalism but I do think the head of police in London is very agressive with his tactics. It was wrong to direct the protestors one way and then block them in. It is bound to cause trouble in the end and lots of ordinary students got caught up among aggressive people and couldn't escape. In Bristol the police have been really good and the head of police there always speaks in a reasoned manner and brings things back down in temperature. There hasn't been any trouble in consequence. The London head of police has been embarassed and I think he wants to be seen as 'tough' now and posture around a bit which isn't really the point of his job.

I also was upset to hear about ALfie Meadows, a philosophy student from Middlesex University, who got hit on the head and had to undergo 3 hours of brain sugery last night. I am praying that all the people who got hurt, students and police, are okay and that Alfie in particular makes a full recovery.

As for will anything change. I don't think so. The vote has been passed. However there are lots of things to be decided before the white paper in March and I suppose people will campaign for that.

babycuckoo · 10/12/2010 18:16

Unfortunately the choice for youngsters is really limited, where are the jobs etc.... university is really the only option at the mo, its a really sad state of affairs, dont want to harp on when we were young..... but you could leave school and get a job but now thats really almost impossible. It does seem to be a good idea to tax the companies that benefit from graduates....