To wonder if these riots will change anything?

[poshsinglemum]

I think it's getting totally out of hand. I think that HE should be accesable but that's what the students loan company is for-no? i have no money; I have a student loan. When I start to earn enough again I shall continue to pay it back.
I have no problem with demos but attacking a car etc is not helping the cause.

melezka

one guy did that!!!! have you never seen a Saturday night in Crawley (insert town of choice) this is what young people 6do6 stupid things!!! and then you have a camera pointed at them and its on the nine o'clock news instead of you've been framed

I don't know where the EDL comparison comes in. I'd rather have neither, myself.

I think people do get somewhere with MPs, if it is a matter on which the MP can actually swing any influence.

smallwhitecat - do you have any details of the demo next week?

Interesting to read some of the letters pages today: kettling children in the cold for hours, misleading directions from the police, riot cops talking about kids 'getting what they deserve' even while just preparing their gear hours earlier, student having a stroke and brain surgery after being hit with a truncheon, another knocked unconscious when stepped in front of 14 yr olds being charged with horses. Two sides to every story. Most infuriating thing is that the violence allows the coalition to ignore the strong feelings of a lot of people.

I knew it was a three line whip when I wrote.
But a majority of 21 - it could have been different, I think.

Yes, 21 is a slim majority for such an important vote and raises interesting questions for the future.

If Simon Hughes had had a little more courage and actively come out against, rather than abstaining, he could have taken half a dozen with him. Could have been very different.

To clarify

EDL and Student Riots both have legitimate right to protest,

EDL want to walk through Multi Racial areas and stir up local feelings to escalate to a riot and a jolly good punch up with the police and locals

Students want to walk through area where decisions about their future are being made and stir up political feeling to make sure their views are heard because apparently voting them in doesn't necessarily work.

Given the volumes i'm stunned there haven't been more injurys - crowd surges have created more tragic deaths than these demos so far, and thinking back to violent protests in the past - they've stimulated debate rather than blind acceptance.

Indeed.
That particular if makes me rather sad.
I do know something was going to be done to make education affordable - for government I mean - and I also appreciate this has been under discussion over a change of government.
But the erosion of civil liberties and the seeming total disregard for the views of the public just seems so arrogant and frankly has me weeping with despair. I literally have no faith that anything will be done for the betterment of the majority of the population.

..... we can still eat cake

Yeah well if we are eating cake I may very well start knitting.

smallwhitecat t - that is complete crap. Many students (some of whom are actually disabled, you know) are also up in arms about the attacks on other sectors. And they will be there. Oh, and you know what, I know some disabled anarchists - and I can't guarantee they won't act wildly out of desperation.

smallwhitecat "the vast majority are spoiled, selfish little arsewipes who fail to understand that our national delusion that 50% of the population should go to "uni" is not affordable."

Sweeping generalities don't do your argument any favours, 50% Higher education is not affordable but 50% further education should be - it should be funded by central gov via taxation and by industry as they are the primary benefactors to having a well educated (not just degrees) workforce.

Well, I haven't read it all, but I have to agree with smallwhitecat.

Arsewipes, indeed ....

Exactly Riven let's not forget that our wonderful prime minister was part of a restaurant trashing club. But that's ok cos they do it in a posh frock

Oh! Be under no illusions. Most of the kids involved in the worst of it won't be working class. They'll be middle/upper.

What a nonsense to believe otherwise.

Working class kids are brought up better.

How do you know what their background is?

Touche, my friend.

How the fuck do you?

I don't. But I'm not the one making sweeping judgements.

It's OK to trash a restaurant if you do it in a posh frock.

Is that not a sweeping statement?

That would imply that all posh folk can get away with it ......

I was being flippant. I don't understand why little has been said about the bullingdon club yet people are saying that the students are thugs etc etc.

Well what you do you expect, Iggly?

Following the scenes on Thursday night, most people are rightly appalled.

Some of those kids want us taxpayers to fund their further education. Based on the evidence, we should be forgiven for wondering why.

And I fundamentally disagree with their mantra.

EDUCATION IS A RIGHT, NOT A PRIVILEGE.'

Bollocks! It's the other way around, and it always was, and it always will be.

I've said this a thousand times. The actions of a minority should not be used to judge.

Has education always been a privilege? So all of those who've had it free in the past, what did they do to deserve it whereas today's students are expected to pay? The impression given is that today's youth are worthless (in combination with all the other cuts) and if they want something they'll have to pay. Today's young are the future, so they deserve a little bit of respect.