Not sure why it rankles

[ARepleteHmmSkiNun]

Hello I changed my name as I only post on other boards. Not that I post very often anyway. I don't generally feel the need to comment or ask advice but I find myself thinking about something too much in my opinion. I don't really know why and it annoys me.
Anyway I went to a neighbour's house to ask them something. They tend to keep themselves to themselves but are ok. I spent about 20 minutes there discussing this and that, questions, answers, bit of humour all the normal stuff. Anyway the husband mentioned something about cricket. I don't know anything about cricket really and told an old joke about Pakistan and the world cup, which was actually a joke about football which I know just as little about. Then her husband told some joke about flying carpets exploding which I must admit I don't quite remember. Anyway she gave her husband one of those looks (often given by those who are a bit socially insecure to their significant other when actually directing their comments at the other person in the room but looking for support and agreement from their partner - do you know what I mean?) and said that Peter (their son of about 13) would say that what her husband said was racist and that you can learn from young people you know. The husband and I continued the conversation without reference to her point as I, and perhaps him, felt a little embarrassed, because it quite obviously begged the question from me as to why it was racist.

So the point being, imo she was being particularly English and indirect/dishonest and accusing me of being racist. I certainly am not. I think she is the type of person who is very quick to find offence on other people's behalf when none exists, cetainly not detectable by the sort of person she assumes she is "protecting"
I do dislike dishonesty, hypocrisy and the type of naive liberalism (the type of liberalism which is derived from a general social theory of being "nice" but actually never rigorously looks at the consequences of its actions) which seems common nowadays.
Am I reading too much into this? I don't know why it rankles. Perhaps I shouldn't find it offensive to be called a racist by a person who is too stupid to realise she is racist, but perhaps it is better to let such things go in a casual social encounter with one's neighbours. Perhaps it rankles because I should have brought her up on it and asked her why she thought that but I only popped round to ask something and didn't want to get drawn into a long political/sociological discussion.

"How about hard-working, educationally-predisposed people travel abroad to escape from oppression and manage through grit and determination to make money where the indigenous population have failed and with the support of a strong family culture manage to make a living for themselves in a country with which they have few cultural and linguistic links. The slightly amazed point of view of the natives, not realising that hard work can actually get you from nowhere to somewhere, is that that may all be very well, but they can?t play football."

Hmm, interesting point. Here's another.

How about - and watch out, because this is so radical it's gonna blow your socks off - how about, not all Pakistani people are identical?

How about, some Pakistani people are lazy?

How about, some Pakistani immigrants become lawyers, or doctors, or welders, or cabaret singers, or - gosh, anything that white people do?

The slightly amazed view of the natives is that adults who are allowed out on their own are still laughing at jokes they last heard in the last year of junior school and still haven't worked out why those jokes offend lots of ordinary people.

Still, I'm sure you're about to prove me wrong by telling me how some of your best friends are coloured.

Hmm that is interesting. In the first paragraph above I was actually referring to a middle-class English family of Chinese origin moving to Greece, but forgot to mention it.
Thanks for sending me a pm to your website. But I'm sure others would like to see it too:

www.blackpeopleloveus.com/

Do you know any good jokes? My OP was not at all about a joke but please let me into your joyous world of humour, or at least somehow explain to me the basis of humour as you see it? I'll wager 10,000 Dalasi you cannot post a funny joke here and now because your world is grey and cold and fundamentally misunderstands the human race.

See above: big chimney says to little chimney. Or is that smokist?

It is chimniest

"In the first paragraph above I was actually referring to a middle-class English family of Chinese origin moving to Greece, but forgot to mention it." I think you mean in the second paragraph - the first appears to end with the phrase, "it annoys me." But, picky comments about your grammar aside, so fucking what? Great, you know a Chinese bloke who loves a good laugh at the expense of Pakis as much as the next right-thinking Brit. AND they've got lovely manners, haven't thy? And to hear him on the telephone you wouldn't know he was any different etc. etc.

No idea what you are talking about with pm. If you were sane, I'd probably complain about that comment. But you're not so I'll just put it down to the screeching Jesus voices in your head.

"Do you know any good jokes?" Not yet, but I'd like to - tell me more about yourself.

The basis of humour as I see it is that you laugh at what you want to laugh at.

What you DON'T do is, when caught laughing at a joke which is clearly racist, go on like Professor Yaffle on crack about how everyone else is racist and you're just such a great guy. You're not, you're a little bit racist and you got caught, so you're not a particularly bright racist.

paragraphs?????

thenightsky Thu 02-Dec-10 00:11:25
OP... i get the feeling that jokes are not your strong point.

I think i heard the exploding carpet one before actually

But I haven?t. I was told it, I didn?t understand it and I certainly don?t remember it. I know this may be difficult for some of you to believe who are all confused and no this is not an attempt to make someone to repeat this joke. Probably it was rubbish. I don?t care. I get the impression from some of the posts above that it is not acceptable in England to tell any joke where any person in that joke is identifiable in any way culturally, lingustically, nationally, genderwise and so on and so on. Does this mean that in 20 years or so all jokes will be along the lines of

"a robot or object but not necessarily a non-robot object but certainly not a human being, identifiable in any shape or form ,not that shape or form are necessarily negative or the absence of such characteristics should be taken as positive, said to another robot or object but not necessarily a non-robot object but certainly not a human being, identifiable in any shape or form ,not that shape or form are necessarily negative or the absence of such characteristics should be taken as positive,
"Hello", and immediately the first robot or object but not necessarily a non-robot object but certainly not a human being, identifiable in any shape or form ,not that shape or form are necessarily negative or the absence of such characteristics should be taken as positive, started to explain and apologise that.....
Can you not see that such total ignorance of all of human history, culture, anthropology and psychology that your dangerously short-sighted viewpoint espouses is utterly and completely destructive of all that makes life worth living?
No, I suppose not

"Can you not see that such total ignorance of all of human history, culture, anthropology and psychology that your dangerously short-sighted viewpoint espouses is utterly and completely destructive of all that makes life worth living?
No, I suppose not"

Oh, my dear Oscar, if only I had thought of that!

"I get the impression from some of the posts above that it is not acceptable in England to tell any joke where any person in that joke is identifiable in any way culturally, lingustically, nationally, genderwise and so on and so on."

No.

It's just unacceptable to bore the arse off people with dull jokes.

Especially when they're a wee bit racist too.

What you appear to know about anthropology and psychology I could write on the back of a receipt from my local corner shop.

Which is run by Indians, I believe.

What about situational humour, the humour that comes from an empathetic view on life (appreciate that may be difficult for some), observational stuff which is about stereotyping rather than deeply personal issues related to self such as one's gender, sexuality or ethnic origin? Is it all Robots and Magic carpets for you?

You are the ignorant narrow minded person here I feel, certainly on the humour front.

Ok I know that young people and students love to shout at anyone they don't agree with that they are stupid and racist but I think everyone knows now that a point or a position it is not.

"Ok I know that young people and students love to shout at anyone they don't agree with that they are stupid and racist but I think everyone knows now that a point or a position it is not."

Something we have in common is that neither of us knows what you are talking about.

PC gone mad

I've got my best robots and magic carpets jokes in a special clutch bag next to the vacuum cleaner, or did I put it next to the spare head gasket in the shed or was it under my Bollywood wives novel or was it with my extra special collection of receipts of book purchases from Ye Olde Anthropologie and Psychologie Shoppe with extra plates of Little Nell's Grandfather's Odd Aunt of Unknown Origin

Thanks for giving me the biggest laugh all evening! This thread is well and truly bonkers

Please continue ... don't mind me

Ooh - does someone know a joke about a PC gone mad?

Was he coloured?

That would make it funnier still!

You sound like an utter knob I did my philosophy degree with. He got a 3rd.

Are all jokes that identify people by race, gender, ethnic group offensive?

Yes if they're derogatory about that race, gender or ethnic group.

Does that solve your problem?

The above does not mean anybody has to resort to robots. They just have to come up with better jokes.

MIFLAW Thu 02-Dec-10 01:23:02
"In the first paragraph above I was actually referring to a middle-class English family of Chinese origin moving to Greece, but forgot to mention it." I think you mean in the second paragraph - the first appears to end with the phrase, "it annoys me." But, picky comments about your grammar aside, so fucking what? Great, you know a Chinese bloke who loves a good laugh at the expense of Pakis as much as the next right-thinking Brit. AND they've got lovely manners, haven't thy? And to hear him on the telephone you wouldn't know he was any different etc. etc.

No idea what you are talking about with pm. If you were sane, I'd probably complain about that comment. But you're not so I'll just put it down to the screeching Jesus voices in your head.

"Do you know any good jokes?" Not yet, but I'd like to - tell me more about yourself.

No, I mean in the first paragraph. Try counting again. It starts like this: 1,2 etc
No I don?t know a Chinese bloke who laughs at ?Pakis? I presume you are referring to people of Pakistani origin or ?Pakistanis? I think I might have to report you for using such derogatory racist language. Perhaps YOU know a Chinese bloke who does this. Perhaps you ARE the Chinese bloke who does this. I don?t get the telephone reference but perhaps you have been watching rather too much of ?The Good Life?
You want to get out into the world a little more.
Sorry to say you did not come up with a joke so you do not win the 10,000 Dalasi.
As we say in Gambia. ?There is no arse as funny as an unfunny arse?

MIFLAW

"Do you know any good jokes?" Not yet, but I'd like to - tell me more about yourself.

Fail I'm afraid. Not funny.

MIFLAW Thu 02-Dec-10 01:59:31
Ooh - does someone know a joke about a PC gone mad?

Was he coloured?

That would make it funnier still!

Again, null point, sorry to say

MIFLAW Thu 02-Dec-10 01:46:29
"Ok I know that young people and students love to shout at anyone they don't agree with that they are stupid and racist but I think everyone knows now that a point or a position it is not."

Something we have in common is that neither of us knows what you are talking about.

It doesn't surprise me in the least

Not much to write home about here is there

Anyone?

Now that is appropriate use of the Pombear!

LaWeaselMys Thu 02-Dec-10 02:03:47
You sound like an utter knob I did my philosophy degree with. He got a 3rd.
Are all jokes that identify people by race, gender, ethnic group offensive?
Yes if they're derogatory about that race, gender or ethnic group.
Does that solve your problem?
The above does not mean anybody has to resort to robots. They just have to come up with better jokes.

Above we have a prime example of a major problem in today's society. Ignore the points and attack the person. I suppose it is all connected with sound bites, image over substance, dumbing down, ladettes and all that sort of stuff. In an ideal utopia where everyone has been injected with "the student union mentality" (which is a potent cocktail consisting of cheap alcohol or Trustafarian Champers and distilled essence of lacque du responsibilite with a dash of knowledge and no understanding) there will be better jokes than you can possibly imagine, probably written by socialists on a sort of committee of elephants, or possibly Tigers but not Tigers from Pakistan, or "pakis"
as MIFLAW would refer to them

I was likening your ramblings - and they are ramblings, there's no flow of argument or coherent thoughtprocess at all for us to follow and analyse, to somebody I know. Is that a problem? Did you pick up on knob and think I called you one? I did not, I am merely comparing your style of argument. His style didn't serve him very well, and yours isn't helping you either.

After that I explained in concise sentences and A basic format why some jokes are offensive. Perhaps this is ideologically opposed to your free society in which racist jokes are totally okay, and anyone who thinks they're not is a hypocrite.

Well, I for one am breathing a sigh of relief that ARepleteHmmSkiNun has come along and posted such insights. They have challenged everything I thought I knew, and made me question the very nature of my beliefs. I'm not sure what I'd have done if he hadn't posted? Oh, I may well have led a full and happy life, sure, but I wouldn't have known the truth. What kind of life would that have been?

Now I see. In order to win I'm-not-a-racist, you actually have to tell racists jokes, probably in an ironic way. If anyone tells you you're racist, well more fool them for not recognising the many facets of your superior intelligence and multi-layered not-racist sensibilities.

The scales have fallen from my eyes, and I now recognise Bernard Manning as the genius satirist he so clearly was. Can we have some direction on Roy Chubby Brown please?