Not sure why it rankles

[ARepleteHmmSkiNun]

Hello I changed my name as I only post on other boards. Not that I post very often anyway. I don't generally feel the need to comment or ask advice but I find myself thinking about something too much in my opinion. I don't really know why and it annoys me.
Anyway I went to a neighbour's house to ask them something. They tend to keep themselves to themselves but are ok. I spent about 20 minutes there discussing this and that, questions, answers, bit of humour all the normal stuff. Anyway the husband mentioned something about cricket. I don't know anything about cricket really and told an old joke about Pakistan and the world cup, which was actually a joke about football which I know just as little about. Then her husband told some joke about flying carpets exploding which I must admit I don't quite remember. Anyway she gave her husband one of those looks (often given by those who are a bit socially insecure to their significant other when actually directing their comments at the other person in the room but looking for support and agreement from their partner - do you know what I mean?) and said that Peter (their son of about 13) would say that what her husband said was racist and that you can learn from young people you know. The husband and I continued the conversation without reference to her point as I, and perhaps him, felt a little embarrassed, because it quite obviously begged the question from me as to why it was racist.

So the point being, imo she was being particularly English and indirect/dishonest and accusing me of being racist. I certainly am not. I think she is the type of person who is very quick to find offence on other people's behalf when none exists, cetainly not detectable by the sort of person she assumes she is "protecting"
I do dislike dishonesty, hypocrisy and the type of naive liberalism (the type of liberalism which is derived from a general social theory of being "nice" but actually never rigorously looks at the consequences of its actions) which seems common nowadays.
Am I reading too much into this? I don't know why it rankles. Perhaps I shouldn't find it offensive to be called a racist by a person who is too stupid to realise she is racist, but perhaps it is better to let such things go in a casual social encounter with one's neighbours. Perhaps it rankles because I should have brought her up on it and asked her why she thought that but I only popped round to ask something and didn't want to get drawn into a long political/sociological discussion.

It's all about context loopy

Hmmm perhaps the fact that there is no detail about the jokes is a detail in itself.

I can't think how there could possibly be a not racist joke about people from Pakistan and exploding carpets.

Happy to be corrected, but really, seems pretty obvious what deeply unpleasant direction that one was going in.

Yes, and surely any 'joke' that makes reference to one's race/sexuality, etc. etc. is potentially offensive. This is why my joke repertoire consists of the knock knock jokes and big chimney said to the little chimney.

Thought I would wait and respond all at once as all the cross postings seem to cause a lot of problems, so in no particular order:

AnyFuleSno
from the way you've told it, she was saying that her H was being racist, no?

I must be a bit dumb because I thought by giving loads of detail it would make it clear but I guess less is more sometimes. Some people cannot be direct. I can't make it any clearer.

LoopyLoops Wed 01-Dec-10 23:30:09
You might want to revise your posting style too. This would have sufficed:

Went round to my neighbours' the other day, they were talking about Pakistan playing the cricket. I made a joke, he made a joke, she told him off for being racist. I think she might have aimed the telling off at me. What do you think?

Yes you?re right loopy.

MIFLAW Wed 01-Dec-10 23:30:31
Is the joke anything to do with corners and shops?

If it is then of COURSE it's bloody racist!

It was actually. But why do you think it is racist?

AgentZigzag Wed 01-Dec-10 23:29:24
I think I get what you're saying OP, and from what you've said she was just shooting a warning shot across the bows of her DH that what he was saying could be construed as being racist.

I don't think she was aiming it at you, or she would have been more challenging about it.

Glad someone understands the post zigzag. But I guess she is not the sort of person to be challenging in a direct, honest way, like ?what do you mean exactly? but just has a subtle go, by pretending she is making a criticism of someone else when she isn?t, just to make someone else feel criticised, without them being able to come back to her without appearing a bit ?off? and over-interpretive. I guess I just don?t like dishonest people and that is what rankles. Thanks for helping me out all. I appreciate it. The English have many positives but I am afraid to say (and it is not just me but most of the world agrees) emotional honesty is not one of their strong points. Yes, yes, I?m sure someone will call me racist but that?s life.

LaWeaselMys Wed 01-Dec-10 23:36:12
I can't think how there could possibly be a not racist joke about people from Pakistan and exploding carpets.
Well I couldn?t comment on that, even though I was there, because I don?t remember it because I didn?t understand it. But I?m glad that you understood it. Perhaps you could tell me? Or maybe you are like my neighbour and are quick to find offence where non exists and with limited knowledge?

Yes, yes but the most pertinent question (perhaps you missed all the posters asking) is what was your joke?

Thats really all we need to know.

Oh really? Hmm... whay am I not surprised?

Oh dear, indeed.

Saying this as a person who overthinks just about every conversation I have, I would say that if your reading between the lines and believe that the other person is saying something to you, but couched in saying something to someone else, I would say you're putting words and intentions into her mouth that aren't there.

If she really thought you were being racist, (and I believe she said that to her DH because she knows he's not, but thinks it could be taken as racist) and was outraged by what you said, she wouldn't be able to keep it in, and certainly wouldn't be polite about it.

Your joke is definitely racist. Sounds like the husband's was too and probably even more offensive. The wife was trying to draw attention to this without causing a big fuss. She may also be a racist but at least she has the sense to know that it is unacceptable to be a racist and was trying to stop you and her husband showing yourselves up as racists in public.

One joke to do with cornershops and one exploding carpets.

But obviously they couldn't possibly be racist.

I think you're trying to wind us up, because if you're not you're incredibly stupid or an ignorant racist.

Feel free to choose between the three.

You called into your neighbours' house.

You and the bloke were exchanging jokes, of a racist nature.

The woman eye-balled her husband because she didn't approve.

Don't blame her.

What's your point?

OP... i get the feeling that jokes are not your strong point.

I think i heard the exploding carpet one before actually.

How can 'race' and 'joke' live comfortably together OP?

People might tolerate Englishman, Irishman, Scotsman jokes, corner shop jokes, etc. but they are still offensive. So please don't be tempted to remember and re live the joke here.

The woman was being vague, you are being vague. It's all very vague.

Dandy - "you're too young to smoke"

Exploding flying carpets was in reference to suicide bombers...and it was racist.

Hmmm. Some interesting takes (thank you) but an awful lot of nonsense. Some coherent and a lot spoken by very confused people imho. However at least it helped me make my mind up. As I say to my husband, there is the real world and there is a strange new Western dystopia. Where will it lead? "Suutoyediyaa" as we say in my country.

"It was actually. But why do you think it is racist?"

The joke implies that Pakistanis are solely motivated by business and in a particularly ruthless, aggressive and stereotypical way at that, so that (ho ho, here it comes) whenever they see a corner they - hee hee, no, stop, my sides! - put a shop on it.

And the message BEHIND that message is that they represent an insidious invasion of "proper" British culture and life.

And, incidentally, that they are shit at football (which is in the "set-up" part of the joke.)

How would you think that that was NOT racist?

I that Finnish for "send them back"?

I note you didn't make a choice. Is it because you are equally racist, stupid and deliberately trying to be provocative.

'cos that gets my vote!

Is this all for real...

MIFLAW Thu 02-Dec-10 00:30:52
"It was actually. But why do you think it is racist?"

The joke implies that Pakistanis are solely motivated by business and in a particularly ruthless, aggressive and stereotypical way at that, so that (ho ho, here it comes) whenever they see a corner they - hee hee, no, stop, my sides! - put a shop on it.

And the message BEHIND that message is that they represent an insidious invasion of "proper" British culture and life.

And, incidentally, that they are shit at football (which is in the "set-up" part of the joke.)

How would you think that that was NOT racist?

Wow, where you do get this weirdo stuff from? Is there some repository somewhere in Western brains?
How about hard-working, educationally-predisposed people travel abroad to escape from oppression and manage through grit and determination to make money where the indigenous population have failed and with the support of a strong family culture manage to make a living for themselves in a country with which they have few cultural and linguistic links. The slightly amazed point of view of the natives, not realising that hard work can actually get you from nowhere to somewhere, is that that may all be very well, but they can?t play football.
You are seriously racist and really need to examine your view of the world, or at least your emotional/political response to it.

"How about hard-working, educationally-predisposed people travel abroad to escape from oppression and manage through grit and determination to make money where the indigenous population have failed and with the support of a strong family culture manage to make a living for themselves in a country with which they have few cultural and linguistic links. The slightly amazed point of view of the natives, not realising that hard work can actually get you from nowhere to somewhere, is that that may all be very well, but they can?t play football."

Hmm, interesting point. Here's another.

How about - and watch out, because this is so radical it's gonna blow your socks off - how about, not all Pakistani people are identical?

How about, some Pakistani people are lazy?

How about, some Pakistani immigrants become lawyers, or doctors, or welders, or cabaret singers, or - gosh, anything that white people do?

The slightly amazed view of the natives is that adults who are allowed out on their own are still laughing at jokes they last heard in the last year of junior school and still haven't worked out why those jokes offend lots of ordinary people.

Still, I'm sure you're about to prove me wrong by telling me how some of your best friends are coloured.

DaftPunk, is this you?

Told you the narcissist cap would fit superbly! A 'clever' 'catch the fuckwits out' kind of post masquerading as a tale from suburbia and providing you with a platform for demonstration of your higher thinking and superior philosophising. Well done you!