forget playpens and reins aibu to wonder about those buggies

[2shoes]

where one child is more or less sitting under another, very low to the ground.
saw one today and poor child had no view , it was just looking at the cover of the child up stairs iynwim
why would you put a child there, and has anyone ever forgotton and put shopping on top of the child?

light McLaren...!

dh and I always awwww over babies in those and say 'you get to post the baby.' in soppy voices. still not sure whether i really like the idea, although i disagree with those who say its cruel.

I tried a sling and a lightweight MacLaren when I took the DC's to London once...

Have never been so glad to get my P&T back afterwards!!!

I don't like seeing a baby so low to the ground, tbh. But they do look quite snug, which is nice.

5$, I wasn't suggesting that tandem slinging is for everyone, I was just answering someone who thought it wasn't possible

I love love love my P&T's, as do my kids (19 months apart)and as we don't have a car in the week, it has saved my sanity by allowing me to get out and about with ease.
The OP is talking crap IMO.

They are the business. the child underneath can see out the sides. They are so much lighter than side by side and tamdems and easier to get through doors etc. i am quite sad I don't need on now.

other point on P&T it is really really good as a single buggy...so say you only need a double for about a year till your toddler walks everywhere, you could spend a couple of £100 on a side by side which is redundant after a year...at least the P&T can still be used afterwards (I know there are other tandems that can convert to single)...

Fair point Octo. Mind I was a teensy bit precious when ds was born and pushed this feck off great big German tank thing around for the first few months.

From what I can see, perambulators have come on in leaps and bounds since then

ok, in the interests of not having a life accuracy I have just measured my 2 buggies - P&T lower seat is 20cm off ground at lowest point, Mothercare Jive stroller is 25cm.

so not quite the same but not much in it.

i had a few doubles before i caved and got a p&t, my two are 16mnths apart and i adored my icandy pear until we got a car when dd turned one, then i tried many doubles and despaired, side by sides are awful, i gave in got a p&t and wed never part with it now, my two love the back seat when theyre sleepy as it blocks the world and since eldest is 3 now its mainly used as a single with a sleepy seat as they call it. not cruel, not dangerous. fantastic.

dp will never part with it he loves the thing. it folds so easily and quite small for a double, very small if i pop the wheels off. one piece in it goes in the car no fuss.
and the front seats huge for nice long naps for the smaller dc.

i love my p&t

YABU find something worth while to worry about

I don't like the idea of them and wouldn't have one myself, but I think the "in line" style of double buggy can be more practical in London than the sid by side type simply because of just how much space they take up. However, I have seen much better designed versions than the P&T, where neither child is sitting in something that does, in fairness, look like a shopping rack.

I am not, however, a buggy user. I have no feelings of wrath towards them - I don't think they are the devil's own work as some people apparently do. I just never really got the point of them. They are hard to get on the bus, you have to rely on people being nice and helping you up and down stairs, you can't push a trolley or pull a wheelie-case, you can't use a brolley. I sometimes think whoever invented prams had a great and pathological hatred for mothers. I tend to take the most obvious approach to things and, for me, the most obvious approach is to chuck the baby on my back and off we go. Any second child will be slung and we will get a cheap foldable for when DS can't be bothered to walk.

I have seen tandem carrying done quite successfully by more than one person, but it is not realistic to do it for any length of time - the people I have seen do it tend to have a small baby and an older child who walks most places and only occasionally needs a lift. I have done it myself on a couple of occasions for the nursery run with DS and my friend's son of a similar age but I couldn't have done it once they hit about 9 kilos. I wouldn't think it is a realistic option for most people, but sling and buggy I would recommend to anyone.

YANBU to wonder - I'm sure they're a godsend and all, blah blah, but when pregnant and clearly with no clue about such issues, I loudly exclaimed in monopolycare mothercare that I thought it was mean to the lowrider as it were. Cue angry sleep deprived parents appearing out of the woodwork! However, given the fact that DD hates even facing me these days, I don't think it could possibly suit every kid.

I hate doing sling and buggy - my centre of gravity doesn't know where to go and it's really uncomfortable.

Do you front carry or back carry? I find back carrying is the only way to feel balanced when doing other things. For me, front carrying only worked when he was really small.

I did both at different times. Both suit me fine with one child and no buggy but not if I'm pushing a buggy.

I don't have a P&T but surely the baby is no nearer the ground than in a Bugaboo Cam which is stupidly low. The baby really is around your kneecaps in that.

And what's despairing about not using a sling? Great if you are strong and fit, only have one child and don't carry much shopping but why would you despair if people choose not to use one?

I don't despair if people choose not to use one. Nor do I think they are a morally superior choice.

I despair when people say there is no other way to manage then using a double pushchair - in most cases (but not all, I accept) that is a hopelessly inaccurate statement.

I think generally - for approximately 75% of buggy or double buggy users - a sling is a more practical, useful choice, and I wish more people would try it, and not dismiss the idea out of hand because they tried one sling in one position with one age of child once and it didn't work for them.

I wish slings were the default and cannot understand why they are not.

But I don't see why you think slings should be the default. They haven't been the default since the dark ages. I'm not being arsey, honest! And I'm not saying they're not good. I used a wrap sling with DD, as well as a more conventional type but mostly for round the house, short trips etc. I couldn't have managed with one for trekking to the shops etc. But they have their place alongside prams.

I'm really not being arsey :)

And it is not the case of having the nous to make the right decisions when much of the information out there surrounding slings and their usage is hopelessly wrong. Most major baby magazines and websites will list a sling as optional but a buggy essential, a sling as a choice for a newborn but list only a framed backpack for a toddler. The biggest selling baby carriers are hopeless, poor positioning, painful examples of the item and put great swathes of people off carrying, as they have bought 'the best' and it did not work. The advice needed for correct and optimum sling use is not easily accessible. There is no more exertion required to use a properly fitted and used sling than there is to walk along the street - if you can pick up your child then you can use a sling. There is little need for strength or fitness.

The myths surrounding sling use are everywhere - making the correct choice for you is all well and good with good information about each choice but on such an uneven playing field, it is very hard.

I don't understand the people saying that they can only do things because they have a Phil and teds.

My buggy is a tandem, 17months between babies. Baby is nice and snug in a proper carrycot and toddler is facing me so we can still chat and I still haven't found anything I can't do that someone with a p&t can. Oh and it turns into a single as well.

Obviously people choose a pram around what is easier for them and if a Phil and Teds does that then get one. But I still don't like them and would never get one. That's my choice though.

Normality- I agree that slings are much easier, I regularly sling the baby and push my toddler in the single but when we are going to be out all day then I take the double as both can nap properly and I can put the baby down and rest myself whilst drinking coffee.

I'm really not being either Rockbird :)

They haven't been default for the last 80 years in most parts of Britain, hardly the dark ages. Ever since the invention of the perambulator/baby carriage approx 200 years ago and its connection with the upper classes/royalty, slings have been on the decline as a pram was such a fashion/social statement and if you didn't have one you were seen as poor. As with anything, it's not so simple - the vast majority of the world uses slings, not prams.

actually I can see why people get so evangelical about slings; there is so much money spent on promoting buggies because some people are making a lot of money out of them - for many people it will be the most expensive thing they buy for their baby by a long shot. Whereas slings are not big business in the same way and are never going to be because some of the best are also beautifully simple (long piece of fabric tied in a certain way etc). And if you get on with slings and backpacks they do feel so fantastic and liberating compared with a buggy so it is a shame when some people miss out because they haven't had access to the right info.

I don't agree that you don't need strength or fitness though. If the sling is properly fitted and comfortable it shouldn't strain any particular muscles but walking 4 miles with a weight (our shops are 2 miles away and I do the walk with a buggy but couldn't with a sling) is always going to need more fitness than walking the same distance without.

I'm not a fan of them - but I do like 'in-line' buggies - for shopping and getting hrough doors (besides I'm an awful buggy driver!) - I bought a different one - one where they sit behind each other - they both get to see - which I think is nicer for them.