Not to want friends involving my 9 yr olds in our disagreement

[Solo2]

A nasty blow-up is taking place between me and some friends about the fact that my twin 9 yr old sons no longer want to go to theirs to stay overnight - and nor do I want them to stay. They've stayed about twice a year over the last 2 to 3 yrs.

I had tried to do all this without a big show-down by both saying the twins were busy with other things and then, when the friends pushed for a better explanation - that perhaps my sons had outgrown the novelty of staying with this couple, although still enjoyed seeing them.

There have now been several phone messages left by the friends who are 'up in arms' about the situation and who are demanding to talk directtly to my little boys about why they don't want to stay with them anymore.

To me this doesn't feel appropriate. I feel it'd be best for me, as the adult, to sort it out with the other adults and then only at the end perhaps have the children saying their bit. In fact the issues about the friends enforcing their own rules and ideas on my sons without first checking with me that this is OK is right at the centre of me not wanting my sons to stay overnight with them.

I previously posted on here some time ago about these same friends giving alcohol to my sons without my permission and also cups of tea (which they'd also never had), which made one of them vomit copiously. They've driven the children around after they, the adults, have been drinking (alcohol), let one DS stay all day in vomit soaked clothing whilst taking him out and about. They've let them go to the local shops on their own, in the busy city where they live, when my sons have never yet been allowed to cross roads etc independently in a similarly busy city. I feel I should be the one to do these things first with my DCs - not the friends - and do it in my time and in my way, as they're MY children!

The issue for me is not so much that they let or encourage the DCs to do things that I wouldn't but more that they've not discussed anything first with me and checked I'm OK with this. Perhaps worst of all is that they've continued to take a 'parental' role with my DCs even whilst I've been there, in direct opposition to what I've been saying.

One eg is them making DS1 eat everything on his plate, when he was too full to do so and saying if he didn't, he'd have to pay them money. They insisted that he was resisting for psychological reasons. When I intervened and said to DS, as I always do, "only eat what your body tells you you want/ need", the friends became enraged and I ended up paying Ds's 'fine' just to stop the whole horrible situation.

These friends are very controlling but have also been v supportive to me as a single mum. I've continued to let the DCs stay with them as I believed my DSs wanted to go, despite some of my own misgivings but the last 2 times, DCs haven't wanted to stay at all and I've then felt bad about making them go, in order not to upset/ anger the friends. Now I know DCs don't want to go to stay, I don't want to make them.

The friends concerned are an elderly lady of 78 - but who acts more as if she's in her early 60's and her much younger husband in his fifties. She's had children of her own yrs ago but he never has and I've sort of let them off the hook for the way they are because of this. But now the more I think about it, the more it feels as if they want parental control of my DCs (there are LOTS of other incidents exemplifying this) but in a way that is obviously detrimental to my sons.

Is 9 yrs old (one has Asperger's traits BTW) too young to become involved with the current dispute or should I let DCs tell the friends what they really think? The friends are highly likely to express their anger and upset v freely and be emotionally manipulative and try to get DCs to say what they want them to say.

brass, I think you and I are thinking the same thing. There must be a very good reason why the OP is still friends with these people. They are toxic.

alarm bells a-go-go tainted!

Exactly. Very odd situation.

How did you meet these friends OP?

The part where you said that your children no longer wanted to stay would be enough for me. And I would tell them to eff off if I had to.

Why are your DC unwilling to go? That can be a massive warning in itself.
My parents never understood why I did not want a particular person to look after me when I was off school etc at around your DCs age. I never said anything as I couldn't get my head around the impact it would have on our family/friends dynamics if I spoke up about what was going on.

Your DC are not comfortable with these people. That's enough to justify them not staying.

OP you seem a little scared about confronting your 'friends'. You seem unsure of your position here. Let me put you straight. You are right. Your instincts are right. These people are very very strange and are having a damaging effect on your children.
You need to cut contact as they have demonstrated that they cannot be trusted with your children even when you are around. They are bullying you and undermining your authority. Alarm bells were ringing for me the entire way through this post. These people seem very sinister and I would be concerned that there may be other behaviour you have not heard about yet.
Get away from them now. They do not own your family just because they have been supportive of you in the past.

WHATEVER help you have had from them nothing makes you obliged to hand your kids over or offer any explanations and if they are pressurising you that is VERY WRONG.

This whole situation is WRONG.

Also I'm now worried if there was something in the tea. Tea might not taste great to a child but make them vomit?!

It is wrong. I have re-read the OP and I can't believe (amongst other things) you paid a fine to them because your DS didn't eat his dinner. Whatever power they have over you is not normal. Please keep your DSs safe. I hope they have not already been harmed by this couple

I agree. Your instincts are right, these people are irresponsible and creepy. But you need to tell them in a clear way, not just say the boys have grown out of the overnight stays.

"The truth is, that the boys don't want to stay overnight with you any more, and I don't want them to either. I'm sorry if that's hard for you to hear, but that's just the way it is and it's non-negotiable".

If they ask why, then give them the examples you gave us (alcohol, vomit etc.) and reiterate that you are the parent and you're not prepared to discuss it further.

Yes.

OP, you mention 'the busy city in which they live' - does that mean that they don't live near you? How often do you see these people? What did you say to them over the drinking & driving, not changing your DS when he was covered in vomit and all the other frankly inappropriate things you mentioned in your post?

Are you scared OP? I'm sure we can help or that you can get help. You are RIGHT to keep your boys safe.

You... had to pay a fine... to buy your own child the right not to finish his dinner?

Can't you see how peculiar all this is?

I suspect because they're a lot older than you and you have this single parent stigma thing going on that you don't have the confidence to overrule them. Do think a little more of yourself, as you're clearly very good for your boys (when you aren't being pressured by weird people).

They absolutely should not be allowed to speak to your DCs unless the children themselves want to speak to them. It is your job as their mother to protect them and stand up for them. The couple are already bullying you and laying guilt trips on you, an adult; they surely won't hesitate to do it to children (all no doubt "for their own good").

This is seriously weird and creepy behaviour on their part , and like others , alarm bells are going off .

You sound like your intimidated by them which isnt surprising , i would consider just cutting them off , or depending on the possibility of them turning up i would write a letter stating you dont want any further contact. Im sure everyone here could help you write something apropriate.

You owe these people nothing , dont have your dcs involved in this and dont let them go again. I think you also need to look at establishing some firm personal boundrys with people so that you can assert yourself when people behave like this.

Get them out of your life. Their behaviour is highly inappropriate at the very least. There really isn't anything left to say.

If you simply can't avoid taking a call from them, then arm yourself with an engrossing book and read it while they rant. When they've finished you can just repeat "your intervention in the bringing up of my children is inappropriate" and read again. Keep doing the same.

They sound the the type of fucking lunatics who would call SS on you if you dont let them stay

Be careful, keep a record of their phone calls/texts/emails

Send them a polite letter/email saying your dc dont want to stay anymore and dont ever contact them again, no matter how much they badger you, they sound seriously unhindged

This couple creep me out - and seem to have some power over you.

Please get your power back and take control. You don't need these people.

And DON'T let them speak to your boys about this situation. This is for the adults.

Be very direct and open, and matter of fact.
Say "I do not wnat them to stay with you because of the drinking / drink driving and forcing them to eat.
It is because of some of these things that they themselves no longer wish to come and stay, but as their mother I would not let them, even if they did.
That is the end of the conversation about this"

They do sound rather bizarre and creepy, do they have soe sort of hold over you? Have they lent you money?

YABU to have not stopped them going before now.

I have forced my kids to stay places they didnt want to stay before because the person was doing me a favour (babysitting) however I would never make my kids stay anywhere that I had misgivings about. (BTW if my kids dont want to stay somewhere it is because of things like not being able to watch X factor or having a different bedtime - at the friends house...and not because my friends are abusing them!)

Im very concerned that the last two times they havent wanted to go but youve made them go anyway , in order to not upset / anger your freinds.

If you as an adult feel intimidated and afraid then i cant imagine how intimidated your sons must feel . I dont mean to sound harsh , but you need to assert yourself and speak up for your sons instead of putting these freinds , and your own awkwardness first.

If you find it hard to do that , take steps to learn , it isnt something that comes naturally to lots of people , its a skill that has to be learned .

These people sound like they have no boundarys whatsoever , and thats very worrying . Can you explain how you met them and why you feel indebted to them ?

J*s they sound like something out of Roald Dahl.

No more sleepovers.

End of.

I think they're a bit odd (which I'm putting down to them thinking they can bully you) but each incident taken in isolation isn't that bad or can be understood as just being a bit odd.

However I think you need to focus on saying No and offering no explanation and firmly telling them they won't be talking to the children as it's not 'appropriate'.

Try and have confidence in your decisions, you are being bullied.

You may lose them as friends but frankly they don't seem to be as supportive as you initially thought.

Oh boy! Lots of strong replies, as I might expect on this forum! Thanks for the feedback.

A bit of background - the female friend is someone I've known for 27+ yrs and who acted as a kind of mother-figure/ therapist when I was in my early twenties. We had our ups and downs over the years and I completely broke contact with her in my 30's because I found her very controlling and invasive and I was then becoming more autonomous and stronger in myself.

When I was PG, I got back in touch because I didn't have parents/ relatives who were able to offer me any kind of support for various reasons. She and her husband came back into my life and the twins' lives. However, we had a massive blow-up again when my DCs were about 8 months I think because she again did something that I found invasive and inappropriate - but, as she would see it, all with the best possible intentions.

After letters/ phone calls and then silence, we got back in touch I think about 2 yrs later and she and her husband began to take a grandparent-like role in my DCs lives. Not having parents (both are now dead) or extended family who are in any regular way involved, I was grateful that my sons had people other than myself who took an interest in them and appeared to love them and claimed to do so.

I think my friends believe that they DO love me and the twins but they are people who have v fixed ideas about things and find it hard to contemplate that they might be wrong and others right.

I've been hugely influenced by the female friend for so much of my life as she's been like a surrogate mother to me. They live in a city about one and a half hours' drive away. Initially, my DCs said they liked to stay with them as the friends gave them more freedom than I do (probably true) and do more exciting activities with them (probably true). It might be a bit like going to stay with grandparents or a father, in the case of the man, who does all the fun stuff, whilst mum does all the hard work at home.

However, DCs have become older and wiser and the son with Asperger's traits has particularly expressed feelings about not wanting to go to stay.

I continued to let them stay because I imagined that they were getting lots out of having other people in their lives who appeared to care about them, who showed them different ways of being and who did fun stuff with them. I WAS/ AM also afraid that my friends would get v angry and upset if the boys didn't stay. By the last time, however, I reduced the stay to one night, not two and after that one, resolved that the twins wouldn't stay again.

I foolishly thought I could hint at this but not confront it head on and hoped that they'd be like normal people and just accept that - whatever excuse I gave - it was time that the twins no lonegr stayed.

Since yesterday, there has been a long message on the answerphone from the man, saying how upset and angry he is, particularly as I've said to his wife that I don't want them to speak to the DCs about all this. He clearly believes also that the DCs WILL be going to stay again and that we just need to clear this up and for me to apologise.

He's said it's no longer possible/ convenient for me to call his wife, as agreed, tomorrow (when he's at work) as she'll be at hospital but that I should call tomorrow night instead and has suggested an inconvenient and late time.

So I've now just left another message for them to say I can't do that time but could talk earlier and that I DON'T think it's appropriate to involve the DCs.

I must admit to being in dread of the eventual call. These are people who won't let go, believing themselves to be motivated by love and care. They'll make a HUGE thing of it and may even turn up at the house sometime. I find it v hard to stay rational about this as they're what I describe as our closest friends who've stuck by me over the years. In many ways, they're the only 'family' that my sons have got - although they do have more extended family but we only see them about once a year at most.

Whilst some of the MN views expressed above are naturally v strong, it's helpful to hear them as a counterbalance to the part of me that feels like I've now done something wrong, that I have no power in this situation and that I should back down, give in and apologise!

I'm not a complete passive drip in most other contexts of my life BTW, although you wouldn't know it to read my OP! But I do find that I tend to appease and please and become compliant with people in order to avoid confrontation, which I guess is what I've done here.