A good job there aren't many men on MN

[Truckulent]

I think men would be shocked at the level of resentment leveled at them on MN. Almost a seething mass of contempt at times.

I'm a man, been on here for years. And I was surprised by it.

AIBU to think it's a good job there aren't many men on here, or would more men posting help men and women understand each other better?

I thought that the OP was mainly talking about the relationships section, as were many of the responses, rather than the feminist section. Was I wrong?

There are many lovely men posting on MN. There are also some who seem to post wildly inappropriately, with seemingly no due consideration. Men posting unhelpfully on support threads for victims of rape, telling women that childbirth isn't so bad, telling women who are in terrible situations in their relationships that they are the ones who need help etc etc. There are women who post similar things, of course, but for me it is much harder to take when it comes from a man somehow.

God yes SF I saw that post and was a bit shocked by it - it is truly man-hating. And yet, if you say "FGS, you don't have to put up with this, decent men don't behave like this", it's you who are called the man-hater.

Especially on threads about rape. Let's get one thing straight here people: The legal definition of rape (and let's remember that the law was formulated by a bunch of rich white men, not a bunch of militant man-hating feminists) is penetration by a penis when the person being penetrated doesn't want it. And yet, if you point that out, you are called a man-hater, as if all men rape habitually - I mean, how much lower opinion of men can you have, than to assume that they're all rapists? I live in a rose- tinted world where most men only want to penetrate women who want them to penetrate them. And for that, I expect I'm labelled a man-hater.

I guess I don't like it on here when men seem to be telling women what to do/how to think etc. That happens enough in RL I don't need it on here as well really.

Oh and another thing re the "emotional abuse" thing - I take exception to the idea that people notice it only because of their personal experiences. Many people here have done reading, have worked in the field, and know about this stuff, and I think you need to remember that outside of MN, this stuff really isn't widely known about - it may well have been the first and only time an OP may have heard of such a thing and it's worth throwing into the mix because if people know what all the options are, from the mild "DH is being a wee bit of an arse, but actually I am too so that's OK" to "OMG I've just realised he's grooming me for DV, he's already doing the gaslighting, stonewalling, undermining and "accidental" shoving", then they can choose from the range of behaviours, which one is most appropriate to their circumstances. You need to remember that outside MN, this stuff, which is so common, so widespread, is simply not discussed or recognised and sometimes for an OP it is an enormous relief to have something named.

I can see how it could be a bit of a shock for a man who stumbles onto MN and experiences women voicing opinions and ideas that they feel free to express because this is a predominantly female space.

Must be a bit of a shock to the system to discover that what is presented by society as a god given birthright is actually - not.

I don't like it when people post threads which jokingly advocate domestic violence would it be alright to stap X through the eye with a rusty nail or hit him over the head. Even though they are joking about (I hope), I don't think you should joke about what is domestic violence.

Beachcomber- that's about spot on. I pretty much never hear these opinions so forcefully put in real life by women

And I don't think many men do, it is an interesting learning experience.

Truckulent to be fair, most people don't talk about the probs in their relationships so forcefully in RL. Right up to the very end, until they accept it's gone west, they want to preserve the "happy couple" image, because they tell themselves they're just going through a bad patch and none of us want our friends to judge us and our relationships by a few bad patches, do we? After all, if we do stay the course, we don't want to be judged on a bad patch we had ten years ago that we've completely forgotten about but our friends still gossip about behind our backs.

And also, viz housework, we are all conditioned to believe that it is too petty to complain about. Many men have the luxury of being loftily above it and many women have the seething resentment of feeling petty because they feel so angry and they can't think why they're so furious about something they have been trained to think is too petty to argue about. But when you see it as an issue of respect and value and love, rather than a petty matter not worth discussing (because after all, only women care about it), then you can see why the simmering resentment is justified. But yes it's a big shock for many people to find out that something they have always assumed to be so unimportant, is actually a major cause of really bad feeling in relationships.

And tbh it would be a good thing if more people expressed these viewpoints in RL. A lot of couples might be a lot happier.

I once asked for a male perspective on a thread on step-parenting issues and over protective dads of their offsprings behaviour however bad - and his post was fascinating and gave a real insight into the problem that most of us presumably women on there wouldnt have thought of.

I know we're all different but i think men can always see through mens behaviour and women through womens much more easily somehow.

It's good to hear different views. A lot of women have very different views from me on here and the beauty of the internet is you can exchange views with people who are very different from you, whether that be by gender or otherwise.

The most important issue though is a legal one -that we need to preserve people's rights to write what they like and that is something being chipped at all the time by the state, particularly under the last Government. We need to feel so strongly about the subject that we will be fighting to preserve the rights of those whose views we abhor can write them.

YABU

The majority of domestic violence is perpetrated by men against women. Two women are murdered every week in England and Wales by an intimate partner. I am not making this up.

Why do you think organisations like Women's Aid and Refuge exist? Why do the police have sections on their website dealing with domestic violence? Designated officers and protocols to help victims? It may come as a shock to see it up close and almost at first hand on a forum, but it exists, it starts somewhere, it can be predicted, it follows a pattern. There are thousands of publications on the subject.

And really, how much of this is there: 'there's a section of MN which will shout "abuse" when some poor bloke has left the loo seat up,'? There are lots of people here who have had a baptism of fire wrt abuse in their own lives and have learned much from it. What's so wrong with trying to save someone else from the misery and possibly the injury that come with abuse?

Some of the most insightful posts about true arseholes have come from men, who didn't mince their words. I would love to see more men calling a spade a spade here. Lord knows there are plenty of opportunities here.

Mind you, there have been some spectacularly tone deaf men here who completely missed the point, didn't seem to understand that a group of women discussing a problem with a man isn't the pitchfork mob that a group of men discussing a problem might be -- for women, talk is action, and a group of us together, while seemingly angry, isn't about to lynch anyone. For men, talk is generally the prelude to action. Women's communication serves the purpose of expression of sympathy, and encouragement of the individual. I think men who are not aware of how communication works among women might be a bit gobsmacked.

"God yes SF I saw that post and was a bit shocked by it - it is truly man-hating. And yet, if you say "FGS, you don't have to put up with this, decent men don't behave like this", it's you who are called the man-hater."

Actually as a man it is the first kind that I would find more offensive. i.e. the what do you expect he's a man/arsehole.
I've never felt any problem with someone calling a man a dickhead because he's acting like a dickhead rather than a poster trying to state that he's a dickhead because he's a man.

Other comments I'd be at but not offended by are the ones which would quickly look to attribute any action by a man as some sort of control or abuse wihtout any real supporting evidence.

As a man who posts on here I normally stick to the aibu/in the news section as they are areas which seem to encourage more general debate rather than threads which are by their very nature quite personal. I will occassionally post in "relationship" if it seems like a thread which could use a male P.O.V but I'd never post on something like a rape victims thread or on any overtly-personal thread looking to start a debate or stir up feelings when the poster obviously is not looking for that and need support.

On a pedantic note
"The legal definition of rape (and let's remember that the law was formulated by a bunch of rich white men, not a bunch of militant man-hating feminists) is penetration by a penis when the person being penetrated doesn't want it. And yet, if you point that out, you are called a man-hater, as if all men rape habitually - I mean, how much lower opinion of men can you have, than to assume that they're all rapists?"

Necessary that the man penetrating the woman is aware or reckless to the fact that she is not consenting.
Other than that agree with your post entirely.

**it is also necessary....

is how that should have read.

Mathanxiety- until I arrived at MN I didn't know any of these statistics, they are not pushed by the mainstream media. So most men won't have heard about them.

I've been on MN for some time now. I think its a fascinating place. There are some very clever, motivated and women around whom I think are very good role models.

Others to be frank are a neurotic mess and I shudder how their stupidity affects their offspring.

There is a lot of man hating going on which on any other site would not be tolerated. But on MN with so much estrogen, its hardly a surprise.

What I've found is an underlying principle that if you have a vagina then you are right. If you don't and dare to post anything that goes against that principle then said man will be corralled and attacked like the last human against an army of undead zombies.

Its hilarious!

Good point Truckulent:

I'd like to recommend women's views on the news website for everyone to get a refreshing much needed female perspective on UK and global news events.

It's updated daily and I have it on a blog reader on my ipod and it's great to see equal coverage of stories which have bearly got a mention in mainstream - plus aleternative persepectives on the mainstream stories,

Niceguy2 - what do you think about the violence against women and children which - in real life is tolerated?

How does that compare for you, with the "man hating going on which on any other site would not be tolerated"?

Truckulent - one of the reasons that some of us (the man-hating clique I guess we'd be characterisd as) are constantly banging on about those statistics, is precisely because as you say, the mainstream media don't emphasise them and most people are unaware of them.

When you've read them for the 20th time on MN you might be thinking "oh FGS give it a rest", but we have to remember that the majority of people on any given thread won't have heard them and for them, if they are not determined not to listen, it may be a bit of an eye-opener.

Truckulent - I think it's fab that the feminism section is helping you to raise your children equally!

Come and lurk/post on the discussions re gender and the book club thread discussing Delusions of Gender.

Shoot em in head Niceguy2, the head!

hmm deeming women to be a "neurotic mess" is a way of denying us our reality...

Many issues identified on MN would be far less of a problem (IMO) if women were in tru equality in society and in positions of power.

(off top of my head thinking of: birth experiences/access to support on breastfeeding/lad's mags and The Sport on display for toddlers to see etc etc)