A good job there aren't many men on MN

[Truckulent]

I think men would be shocked at the level of resentment leveled at them on MN. Almost a seething mass of contempt at times.

I'm a man, been on here for years. And I was surprised by it.

AIBU to think it's a good job there aren't many men on here, or would more men posting help men and women understand each other better?

Now there's a radical idea chaotic..

Not that I hate men or want to ban them from Mumsnet!

Beachcomber's post reminds me of the time someone came and told feminists that birth was not a feminist issue and that it was much better nowerdays etc - totally not realising that people were gaining a great deal from sharing their experiences on a thread.

"They're probably the ones, whom far from hating men, actually have a great deal of respect for men to the point where they expect them to behave as mature adults and refuse to excuse any bad behaviour (from any man) on the basis of their gender."

Thats one way of describing them.

While 'man hater' is always going to be an inflamatory term and my own take on it, you just need to read this thread to see that a lot of unrelated posters have also noticed this clique.

In fact, I suspect if it didnt exist, this thread wouldnt either.

indeed chaotic:

"As the late Andrea Dworkin maintained, we are not feminists because we hate men, we are feminists because we believe in men?s humanity, against all evidence to the contrary."

So, so very very sad that women would decide to label other women as "man-hating" for standing up for women's rights!

So, so very very sad that men (as a group's) violence and opression of women is not labelled by the vast majority of women.

Some relevant quotes from Finn Mackay's speech at FiL:

"Every time you raise your voice in resistance, you add it to countless others and you make them count. The women who can?t be here, the women who said no and were ignored, the women who didn?t make it. I know that there are women in this room who have survived horrendous violence, once, twice or many times. Your bravery should never be your shame, and all of us must loudly contradict and challenge a society that puts onto women, its own shame, for the crimes it condones. And whether we have experienced these crimes or not, all of us are trying to survive, trying to thrive through the lie, that we are worth less than a man. And the reason so many forces are stacked against us, why mockery, silencing and threat is used to repress us is because of the fear that the sleeping dragon that is our 52% majority will open her eyes and take her power back."

"Male supremacy is in fact fairly tenuous; a great bulk of it has to be maintained through the exertion of violence, including the violence of poverty and marginalisation. It is also maintained through ideological means, through sexual objectification, through the stifling constraints of femininity and compulsory heterosexuality. It is nothing short of revolutionary to suggest that this ancient power relationship can be taken apart; but that?s why we?re here. Because we know that male supremacy is neither natural nor inevitable, because it must, can and will be changed, and we, are going to do it."

It's rare that men are called to account for their behaviour outside this forum, with man-hater used to shut down any further discussion. That doesn't work on this forum and you can see the impotent rage of (some, obviously) entitled male posters when they can't fall back on tried and tested methods of getting women to STFU.

I think you are getting confused.

I didnt say Feminist. I said man hater. There are some excellent feminist posters on MN.

Can you give us a list of these man-haters then, since you know so much about the "clique"?

I'm dying to know.

I am well aware that many feminist posters on MN are accused of being "man-haters".

Indeeed feminists in general are often deemed "man-haters".

Having been involved in a thread the other day, involving discussion of whether or not a hsuband had raped his wife, I am well aware than many feminist posters who posted on that thread were shouted down effectively for being "man-haters".

This is why I decided to post some of my thoughts on my own position.

I would ask some of you who lead (sheltered), realatively privaledged lives to do a bit more reseach about rape/domestic violence/women's aid etc before you write-off various posters for "calling abuse".

I, with no direct experience of these matters, have notived a pattern within posts/scenarios and women often post a few details and have never had anyone ask them the tough questions/belive them/care about them.

If many people were to translate themselves in to an OP then the advice would probably be wrong.

As a demogrpahic, women posting on MN have more income more options etc.

Due to the norm by numbers of men out working, women part time or at home - women are often trapped in bead relationships once they have children.

OP - have you learnt more about understanding women?

Can you not understand that the "resentment" against men is either to specifics posted or to "men as a group" - i.e. society?

"Now there's a radical idea chaotic.."

I try

I don't hate men but I won't make excuses for them either. I do believe that the majority of men are decent people, unfortunately there are some who aren't as evidenced by those who rape, abuse or even those who have a self entitled attitude to be waited hand and foot on and serviced by women. I will not excuse the behaviour of the latter because they belong to one gender. To do so would be to insult all those men who are, as I said before, decent, kind, caring, generous and have many other good attributes.

to OP YABU

because feminism and general female point of view should be valuable and interesting to proper men too, imho

and vice versa

On the contrary Dittany- I'm a father of a boy and a girl, and had no real idea about issues facing women. So the feminism section has opened my eyes to sexism and stereotypes I was never aware of.

So the feminism section is helping me to raise my children equally.

(should have said "as a demographic, women posting on MN have more income and options on average than the average women in the UK")

I think dittany is right when she says the real man haters are the ones who say stuff like 'what do you expect, he's a man', 'you know what men are like', 'all men will cheat if they get the chance' etc.

PS chaotic, I agree with you. Most men are decent human beings, making their way through life as best they can just like the est of us.

I agree that people are more likely to leave "negative feedback" - i.e., if you're not happy you moan, whereas if you're happy you just get on with it.

Every so often someone does start a "Let me tell you why DH is lovely" thread or the like, which is as refreshing for its rarity as for its candour.

I think two things would help: 1) a little less use of "MEN!" or the equivalent where there is one man who has done something to piss you off, and 2) being able to post a contrary viewpoint without having it labelled as "anti-" something. (After all, you can take issue with Labour's stance on the Iraq war, for example, without necessarily being an "anti-Labourite". And you can write an essay which picks holes in Shakespeare's plots but this doesn't make you "anti-Shakespeare".)

I agree that any so called man-haters are generally women who are sick of the idea that men are so stupid they can't work washing machines.

I think I would be in support of them frankly if I were a man.

"mayorquimby that was in reply to ccppcp"

apologies so. My mistake.

Man-hating is not the same as fuckwit/abuser/user/neanderthal-hater.

And the idea that mumsnet is the only hotbed of sometime strident, blinkered and dogmatic political commentary only shows that some people don't venture very far on the internet. Or is it that women aren't supposed to be those things?

These threads always puzzle me.