A good job there aren't many men on MN

[Truckulent]

I think men would be shocked at the level of resentment leveled at them on MN. Almost a seething mass of contempt at times.

I'm a man, been on here for years. And I was surprised by it.

AIBU to think it's a good job there aren't many men on here, or would more men posting help men and women understand each other better?

You really are scraping the bottom of the arguments barrel now aren't you

I've reported your post

Infering somebody holds the views they do because they are mad...tsk tsk

you need to read my posts as facts

"Is anyone prepared to admit that in modern Western society women have rights that give them advantages over men? "

Beenbeta I would have to have a proper think about that. If my answer were yes, women have some rights/advantages that men do not have, my next thoughts would be;

A couple of advantages do not an equal citizen make.

Men have many many more advantages, higher status, more power, more money, more privilege and more influence than women.

Spending too much time and thought on this subject detracts form the overwhelming majority of areas in which women are disadvantaged.

Men you've got the power - sort out the areas where you feel you get a raw deal.

The advantages women have tend to be in childcare areas - there are historical, patriarchal reasons for this.

Dangerous jobs - I challenge men to be pimped out prostitutes for a month. Ok, not really. Lets work together, women and men to sort this one out - will be much more effective than trying to get the feminists to sort out all of the (male dominated) world's problems.

Ah yes nurse - my business partner left nursing after one patient too many tried to kill her. (Psychiatric nursing).

She got a bit peeved that the same patient had had a go at nearly all the nurses but was only removed from the unit after he attacked a (male) doctor.

"rich western women continue to be mutilated by male men in white coats posing as doctors, who are in fact eugenisists, as they chop up women's bodies into acceptable shapes"

They should put this line on the home page of MN. At least then the men who might want to post here will know what tone to expect.

"male men" too! Not just one evil. DOUBLE evil.

Or maybe you could help out a stop to the objectification and mutilation of women's bodies, hmm?

Damn and blast missed this bit;

"Oh and please do stop with the faux outrage about me mentioning a topic raised on another thread. In case you hadn't noticed, this entire thead is about the level of resentment leveled at men on MN across all sorts of threads."

Not 'faux outrage', disgust that you would misrepresent and twist what another poster has said on another thread in order to score a point in a fecking internet debate.

You definitely owe Elephants an apology and you owe it to the rest of us to stop treating us as though we are unable to spot flagrant dishonesty.

What with that and ccpccp's contributions, well, it makes me want to embrace feminism all the more.

If you are talking about plastic surgery, I dont particularly see anything wrong with it in itself.

TBH its not normally women changing for men, its women levelling the playing field with other women. Patriarchy or Matriatchy, that same competition would be there.

You'll never change the dynamics of attraction between men and women, no matter how much you legislate.

BTW - increasingly men are getting surgery. And last time I checked, there were huge numbers of female doctors pouring out of medical school. It cant all be men doing the chopping.

yes, it is handy to have these people about. 20 lurkers per thread is the average, apparently. I reckon it's more than that on MN.
Any women out there on the fence about feminism only have to look at the non-arguments of these jokers to see that some people, even with the facts laid bare in front of them, cannot transgress the patriarchal brainwashing.
I mean, really, calling someone mad as opposed to engaging with and addressing the facts of the argument is desperate.

it's nothing to do with levelling the playing field. Only under patriarchy do women's looks become important, because when men hog all the power and money women use their looks as a bargaining tool. It has been specifically designed that way.

In a non-patriarchal society, women wouldn't need to use their looks to have a roof over their head, in the same way that men don't need to.

There are lots and LOTS of ugly men out there as well, you know. WHy aren't they having surgery to level out the playing field? Oh yes, because they've hogged all societies resources and let women have some scraps.

large breasts are not a fetish in Asian countries such as Japan. Flat breastedness is desirable and if you have breasts they are flattened down with padding in a kimono for special occasions.

TBH its not normally women changing for men, its women levelling the playing field with other women in a society which values the size and perkiness of a women's breasts and the number of wrinkles she has over anything much else she has to offer.

It's called 'objectification' - it's a patriarchal concept dontcha know.

urgh at the fact you think the status quo is natural. you probably are the type of person who think Hugh Hefner's girlfriends find him attractive, or prostitutes find their punters attractive.

I am waiting for your apology BeenBeta.

Or, alternatively, an admission that you had no flaming idea what I was talking about, and you now get it and retract your comments will do.

Since you're an avid lurker in the feminism section, you might have seen my link yesterday to a 1908 paper on the Subjection of Men. You might want to have a look at the way this paper twists the contemporary situation of men and women into an argument that men are ground down into the mud. 1908. Arguments have not really improved since then, it appears.

"whether be it in facing less risk of death and injury at work, access to paid parental leave or access to their children in cases of divorce, men are significantly less advantaged than women."

Can we just take that apart a second?

"facing less risk of death and injury at work" - working in a male dominated industry, in a health and safety system watched over by male governments, in jobs that are either also being done by women, or in which women are struggling to make their way against sexual discrimination (e.g. army, fire service). Thus not really feminism's/women's fault. Talk to some men about it and try to sort this out.

"access to paid parental leave" - indeed, and guess who have been trying to work towards more equal parental leave - yes, feminists. Even the much loathed Harriet Harman. I for one have never heard a man standing up for this policy. Don't blame feminists, in anything say thanks and send them some chocolate and they are probably knackered from fighting for your rights.

"access to their children in cases of divorce" - Until comparatively recently men automatically had the right to keep the children totally to themselves after divorce. Still do in some cases. AFAIK residence is usually given to the primary carer, rather than as some kind of who has a penis competition. If you want more men to be primary carers, again perhaps you should take that up with men?

yes, women's have to trade their faces and bodies in return for substistence (food, roof over their head).

In a society where women have equal power [and it's going to happen one day] to men, a man's status in society won't matter to women

You can call me a lot of things Sakura, but a lurker isnt one of them.

You just came late to the party, thats all, and did exactly what the thread was complaining about.

Though TBH, the thread is barely recognisable from its original form now, so easy enough mistake to make when your were caught up in the passion of your man 'dislike'.

Dont take my white coats jibe personally :)

eh?
I said the women lurkers out there will see your non-arguments and realise feminism is a good idea.
Keep it up

'Men have many many more advantages, higher status, more power, more money, more privilege and more influence than women'

Surely this is some men? A poor, uneducated man doesn't does he?

'in modern western society, being a poor man trumps being a rich woman.'

Is this a commonly held theory?

Still trying to learn, I was always a class warrior myself.

You mean they don't Sakura? Are you suggesting this is about power and not natural lurve and attraction in a fair and equal world?

hi truckulent, the answer to your first question is on page 37.

your second question: is this a commonly held theory is no . Most people think rich women have advantages over poor men.

Just a few feminists disagree, because in a patriarchal society, she is still discriminated against for being a woman (in a courtroom , for example, if the uneducated man has raped her- it's likely she won't be believed, if it even gets to court)

Truckulent, if you are interested in the class thing, many feminists see the way out for women through some form of socialism. The class system is not good for women.

Truck, you're back!

I'm also with you on the class stuff.

The thing is to compare like with like.

A poor man will have more privilege than a poor woman for example.

A rich powerful middle class white woman will have more (general) privilege than a poor working class black man.

There isn't only one privilege system operating at a time.

Feminism is concerned with male privilege and female disadvantage but that doesn't mean that we do not acknowledge any other sort of inequality.