A good job there aren't many men on MN

[Truckulent]

I think men would be shocked at the level of resentment leveled at them on MN. Almost a seething mass of contempt at times.

I'm a man, been on here for years. And I was surprised by it.

AIBU to think it's a good job there aren't many men on here, or would more men posting help men and women understand each other better?

And JL spent half his adult life high on drugs in India - he wrote some crap.

OK all this shit about us being formally equal to men: yes, we are, in theory. But there's a big problem with all this. We are theoretically equal in a soceity that was constructed by a tiny minority of rich white men, to serve their needs and desires. Anyone who can behave like them, is gladly welcomed and can sometimes even be accepted into their club; but the problem is, women don't want to be men,and black people don't want to be white, we want to have a stociety which is geared to all our needs.

One very simple example: Cicaks old cliche of the reason women are poor: Because they take maternity leave. Well why have we constructed a society, where the automatic consequence of taking time out to do somthing society needs to be done - the care of children - is penalised by poverty? Because that society doesn't value child-rearing. It's not good enough to say, stop doing child rearing and you;'ll be as rich as men are. We need to value child rearing and ensure that those who do it, are valued, not punished for doing it. That way, society is more geared towards the needs of women and children, and fathers who want to do child rearing themselves, instead of just people who don't want to or would like to but don't, because ot to because they don't want to take the financial penalty of that. Those of you who say we are equal, are missing the point that if the world is designed for someone else to function prooperly in it and not you, the equality is pretty bloody useless.

Beechcomber - I'm not ignoring your request for examples. Just a bit busy.

As it happens though if you go and look at the Anti Feminist Bingo thread you will see posters dismissing the fact that men are overwhelmingly employed in the mining industry where many men are killed. That caused a chuckle among some MN feminist women on the thread.

Not so much hilarity among the mothers, wives, daughters, girlfriends of the Chilean miners, the Chinese miners and the New Zealand miners trapped and killed in the last few months though.

I won't go on.

Ah, a dissolute lifestyle. Bloody artists.

It was the Irish revolutionary James Connolly who apparently coined the phrase 'woman is the slave of the slave'.

BeenBeta; the point being made with reference to miners on that thread was that "men are miners" is brought up and used against women who complain about workplace injustice as if the fact that some men do a dirty and dangerous end essential job = women have it good and stop complaining, not that it is somehow funny that miners died or that women and children are left without husbands and fathers.

Haven't caught up with the thread just read beenbeta's comment and read the thread linked.

No-one is chuckling about dead miners.
No-one has denied that miners are often men.

Deliberate misunderstanding or wilful misrepresentation of what others are saying.

BeenBeta.,,,truly bad form to spy and post about another thread.

And BC I'm not being obtuse ( not intentionally anyway) but I am on 10% battery and nowhere near a charger -

Time to bow out

I'm bowing out of this, I've asked a few questions out of genuine interest but it seems to be two disparate groups posting who are never going to agree so it all seems a bit pointless.

Just been catching up.

On rights that men have that women don't - around the world there are vast differences. In some countries it is legal to rape your wife, divorce her with a word and take the children, women are not allowed to drive etc etc. There are a million examples. Feminism isn't just about women in the UK. It's about women all over the world. Anyone who can look around teh world and deny that male privilege exists is seriously blinkered IMO.

Beenbeta why are you trying to pretend that anybody thinks dead, maimed or injured miners are funny?

Methinks you have misunderstood. Mewonders how hard you are trying to understand.

The conclusion you have come to is either; not thought out, or a wilful misrepresentation.

A better way to do things rather than knee-jerk and purposefully seize the wrong end of the stick would be to ask for clarification.

Don't know about you, but if I read something that made me think, 'hang on a minute, I seem to have understood that these regular people are laughing at death and injury in an extraordinarily callous and cruel way, the like of which I have very very rarely come across in normal folk' - my next course of action would be to wonder if I had misunderstood a subject or group I had only very superficial knowledge of, and check with them as to what they meant.

It wouldn't be to then trumpet my own special personal interpretation as The Truth.

Silly, cheap, low, desperate, wilfully ignorant - you take your pick.

BB are you being deliberately obtuse or what? Who was chuckling about miners, or implying that industrial accidents which happen to men are irrelevant or something to chuckle at?

It is so offensive to deliberately misrepresent a POV like that. You know, when loons like TSH say that we think other people who don't agree with us are just fick, I think that would actually be a charitable characterisation of some anti-feminist argument. Lots of it is fick yes, but I'm not sure how much of it is pure, unsullied fickness and how much is cunning straw-woman-beating. It's so tiresome to have to keep engaging with people who are either fools or knaves. FFS state your case honestly, stop hiding behind disapproval of a POV you don't really believe anyone holds -do you? And if so, why are your perceptions so skewed? I would put £100 on nobody who regularly posts in the feminist section, holding such a disgusting view - so why is my perception so different from your's, why are you so determined to believe the worst of feminists on MN? What non-rose-tinted glasses are you wearing?

Cross posted with Beachcomber, but yes, precisely so

It's just so bloody wearing.

The error is that so many women want to serve and do childcare and bake cakes and serve men not that a society is constructed in which people can work if they choose. The wrong is thehousewife and service mentality, not the society. and it is terribly sexist to suggest women hate work and don;t want to earn money and gain power and influence and love their work. Many of us do. It's the left wing flexitimers who are the problem not the fact that work is a male thing. By suggesting full time work and proper careers are a male construct which only men want does all those full time worker women who adore their full time careers and huge disservice and is untrue anyway. But some women will never agree on that - some are very left wing. If they want a different society they can create one but that does not mean all women who want fairness between men and women want that.

They aren't but they can both be as dull so we need to look at the reasons so many women choose to wash 25 nappies or hold the crying baby for 7 hours or do all the stuff that take so long to do when you have 3 children under 5 rather than run the country. What makes them desire very low paid low grade home things ad nauseum whlist their husbands get a better balance? What makes those women choose that - those very few who don't work. Is it because they never coudl have much of a career as they have low IQs or is it because their mothers were housewives so that;s all they know.

By they way I think it is a very very unfair deal for men against which all woen who want equality should protest if you pay to keep a housewife and she only does part of the task. There are plenty of bad and lazy ones around who yes are happy to hold the baby and change it but they neglect other tasks. If you;re going do the house wife thing it's only fair on the other half if you actually do the job, get on with the scrubbing etc

Xenia, some people want to look after their own children in their formative years, what is wrong with that? The only problem I see is that mainly women do it because men usually earn more and so it makes better financial sense for the woman to stay home.

Feminists drown kittens and eat them you know. Feminists stick pins into voodoo dolls of baby boys and cast spells on then you know. Feminists hate baby boys actually - even their own sons. Feminists cackle with gleeful laughter when any man is injured or killed. They are probably witches in fact; bring back ducking stools and burning at the stake I say!

Oops sorry folks, take it all back, got that a teeny bit wrong - the real story turns out to be that feminists want women to be treated equally. Can't think how the confusion came about.

Is it because they never coudl have much of a career as they have low IQs or is it because their mothers were housewives so that;s all they know.

Neither,. I know many a graduate/GP/Barrister/commercial lawyer that have given up their careers to look after their dcs.

But how can they enjoy it? Yes most men and woemn adore being around their small children for a few hours a day but why are some women conned into thinking they want to be home and do all that drudgery? They get little thanks for it, it doesn't benefit children and they shoot their careers to pieces and end up financially reliant on men.

Ask women 60 and over if they are glad they did not have a career and I can tell you what most of them will say - they will wish they had.

I'm liking 'cunning' or 'thick' as a way to analyse much criticism of feminist debate Stacey!