A good job there aren't many men on MN

[Truckulent]

I think men would be shocked at the level of resentment leveled at them on MN. Almost a seething mass of contempt at times.

I'm a man, been on here for years. And I was surprised by it.

AIBU to think it's a good job there aren't many men on here, or would more men posting help men and women understand each other better?

Oh I'm not arguing that the abusers who have been convicted, will have disproportionately abused alcohol, I totally believe you there.

I'm arguing that alcohol isn't the cause and it's dangerous to imagine it is. And what about all the abusers who don't get convicted? (Most of them BTW.) What do we know about them and their alcohol abuse?

CRP - I think the issue of alcohol being related to DV is contentious because it shifts the focus from personal responsbility of the attacker to the attacker being an addict and well, if they would only stop drinking the DV would stop, when really it all boils down to the attacker accepting responsiblity for their own behaviour.

"es there is some man/mil/etc bashing on here but at least it gives people the chance to talk anonymously."

As with many websites, it is often the case that people with something to "get off their chest" are more likely to post than those who have a contented life (as per Tee2072's " we don't usually come here to post 'Oh my DH is sooo wonderful' " comment).

However, far from there being a lot of man haters, the vast majority of the time, posts I see are of the "yes, he's being a bloody " (other words might be used!!) and as a man, in pretty much every case I can see why that's the judgement.

Men are often selfish, myopic, unthinking, idiots, who simply don't pull their weight, and when you hear of some bloke who was invited to a party on Saturday night but went off on the Friday and has phoned to say he will be back home around tea-time on Sunday, can you wonder that feelings run pretty high!

Coming onto AIBU with such a loaded question is asking for it, mate.

Yes, there may perhaps be some advantage in a few more men participating, and it may lead to some better understanding, but there will undoubtedly be some vociferous posters (both male and female) who appear to have a "stuck needle" and will be ignored as others see the same arguments trotted out again and again.

Most men (who might churn out the same outdated arguments) would be advised to do a lot of lurking [reading before posting] simply to learn the lie of the land and not be branded a fool.

Not sure whether someone was branding me the other day, as the post straight after mine said something like "He's a knob" (I just assumed it was concerning the politician / actor / musician under discussion and let it be without query).

AF - Nooo..not at all - no excusing going on whatsoever!! My post doesn't indicate that. It's just alarming how some people ( in this case men) behave when they choose to get drunk, and perhaps more so when they do this sort of thing without the 'assistance of alcohol'. As someone said further up, it is always about persona lresponsibility, drunk or not.

Agree BdJ.

That's not to deny of course, that very often the 2 are interlinked. You solve one, you solve the other, because the solution is taking ownership of the behaviours and you can't take ownership of one part of your life without taking it of other parts. (Or can you? Haven't thought that through...)

crumbs - no, I have never said alcohol is to 'blame' for DV. A LOT of people choose to use it to facilitate abuse. No excuse-making, no 'poor you' going on.

Actually, pregnancy on the part of the victim is more likely to provide the occasion of DV than drunkenness of the abuser, though obviously both factors may be present. Sad reading here

"Men are often selfish, myopic, unthinking, idiots, who simply don't pull their weight"

Now you do know you're supposed to have put some men there, not just men, don't you Networkguy, because we're all too dense to understand that you don't mean all men everywhere...

SM;
Yes, I was brought up with a good work ethic too ( my parents worked hard - never claimed a penny in benefits etc ) but my mother never worked when we were small - she only worked ( part-time ) when we were all at school. I suppose you do absorb the atmosphere of your childhood and take that into adulthood... ( consciously or not )
I have utmost respect for working mothers - I'm sure it's not easy ( or maybe if is ?) it just wouldn't have been for me ( useless at multitasking )
... And if I'd been a man, I'd probably have been a sexist pig and asked my wife to stay at home.

Pan, I wasn't implying that you personally excuse DV.

Society in general excuses it though...on the grounds of "she/he asked for it", "he/she was drunk" etc etc and personal responsibilty should not be affected by anything but just that

The traditional picture of the bloke in the WifeBeater Vest slapping his wife around after a few Stellas is actually the thin end of the wedge, IMO and IME

math - there is a raised occurence of DV on women when pregnant - we know this - but it doesn't numerically outstrip the incidence of alcohol-related abuse. The two may be uncomfortably entwinned where the woman is pregnant - feels like a sort of 'race to the bottom' re causality of DV.

SGM thanks for that - I just found this too Men Can Stop Rape: www.mencanstoprape.org/

"Men Can Stop Rape mobilizes male youth to prevent men's violence against women. We build young men's capacity to challenge harmful aspects of traditional masculinity, to value alternative visions of male strength, and to embrace their vital role as allies with women and girls in fostering healthy relationships and gender equity."

of course AF - it would be interesting to know more of DV in the 'higher social scale' households. As with a lot of policing it is focussed geographically in poorer neighbourhoods. I don't see any reason as to why the string-vest Stella man has his own counterpart in more leafier suburbia.

The bottom line is though that not all drunk men by a long shot will hit their wives, and not all drunk women by a long shot will hit their husbands. So why do some do it while others don't? And then there are the stone cold sober ones who hit. Why?

I'm confused, Pan is it so that you are making a connection with violence and alcohol? I agree totally, however you can't make a nice person turn into an aggressive twat no matter how much booze you push in. I could be on the floor with alcohol and I wouldn't hit anyone. And as anyone will tell you alcohol is never a defence in law.

At the risk of over-simplifying I think 3 reasons:

1. Entitlement

1. Lack of personal responsibility

1. Power - because they can

Why? Last time I looked at research ther was an incredibly high correlation between DV witnessed when growing up, and then being progressed in the next generation. ( parents are often the ultimate role model) Other stuff around a willingness to blame others for personal short-comings, poor consequential thinking skills, societies dominat view of the rights of women and children, a belief in an ability to get away with it. Not an exhaustive list, but that sort of thing, IMO.

Also viz alcohol, millions of men who don't drink alcohol for religious or cultural reasons, hit their wive, mothers, sisters and children.

This isn't just about alcohol, it's about an assumption that you have the right to hit someone.

Surely a major cause (and I think someone already said this above) for a lot of cases of DV is in learned behaviour (often for the victim too in the sense that if they have seen their mother being beaten they will think it is just something you have to put up with as a woman).

TFP - yes when I get drunk I tend to talk way too much, do some dad-dancing, tell everyone I love them, then fall asleep.

Others are built and feel/think differently. If I knew the panacea of an answer I wouldn't be posting here!!

no -it isn't solely about booze. In our society it is a major related factor.

need to go and do things.

God yes, me too. Do things I mean.

TFP...do you not do silly "mum-dancing" when squiffy then ?

Mathx; It's all down to testosterone. That plus alcohol isn't always a good mix.

But women can be very violent too. The DV statistics probably don't tell the whole story. Women will report DV whereas men won't.
Do we know the statistics for DV in male homosexual relationships? There are certainly cases of DV in lesbian relationships.
It's very complex.