A good job there aren't many men on MN

[Truckulent]

I think men would be shocked at the level of resentment leveled at them on MN. Almost a seething mass of contempt at times.

I'm a man, been on here for years. And I was surprised by it.

AIBU to think it's a good job there aren't many men on here, or would more men posting help men and women understand each other better?

Actually oif you search for Mumsnet on Punternet it pulls up lots of results, some pretty old.

Pan some thoughts on your post re DV:

I disagree that alcohol is related in a sort of causal sense. You're right to say that alcohol is implicated in the worst attacks adn therefore those most likely to be reported to police and/ or require a trip to A&E, but in the everyday acts of violence (pushing, shoving, slapping, threatening etc.) I don't think alcohol is particularly a factor.

One thing I think you missed out, is personal responsibility. I am always amazed by how many people say "s/he made me do it/ look what you made me do/ it was my own fault, I made him/ her angry" as if other people's feelings, responses etc., are their responsiblity, not that of the person having the feelings/ responses etc. I think that this lack of understanding that you and you alone, own your feelings and your actions and you and you alone, are the only one responsible for what you do, is really, badly missing from a lot of people's view of the world. I'm not sure if it's taught in PSHE but it sure needs to be.

(And btw, that brings us roudn to the alcohol issue again - because I think a lot of people drink too much with the idea that once they've started, they can't be expected to regulate their intake, so they don't take responsibility either for how much they drink, or their subsequent actions as a result of drink).

Mayor Quimby is a man?! It all makes sense now.

As a child of a DV household I can honestly say my father wasn't drunk ever when he fractured my mother's skull, broke her ankle, broke her wrist, bit her until she bled, asked my sister to kneel so he could kick her in the face, strangle me, hit all of us, nearly drown my sister,.

ripping each other up - not sure how highly personalised attacks, insults, misreading posts for own advantage should be characterised as.
For large parts 'debate' is wildly inaccurate. Not dismissive at all. With respect.

stacey - Ido disagree re alcohol. It's a great disinhibitor, a sort of 'premission-giver' to do the things you may feel inhibited from doing if entirely sober. It also restricts people's coping skills and so makes for poor reactions even if the urge to abuse someone isn't very strong to begin with.

CRP.....which parts?

'Would that make you guilty for being a member of humanity? After all, it is only humans who rape other humans. Surely you can see that is perfectly analogous to saying that all men should feel guilty as men predominantly rape.'

Larry, I think I may have said this on another thread, apologies for boring anyone who has read this before, but the idea of communal guilt for crimes against humanity has been a very effective teaching tool in postwar Germany. Why not adopt the attitude in the case of rape, which is by legal definition the penetration by a penis (presumably attached to a man) of another human without the consent of the person being penetrated. (loose definition here wrt consent obv.)

TFP - sorry to hear of all of that. Horrendous.

BUT..it doesn't remove the extremely high association twix DV and alcohol in most cases.

TFP which parts? The bits where debate ceased and insults and( seemingly ) deliberate undermining/misreading took over.

Yes, perhaps I skimmed over those!!

TFP - very sorry to hear of your families awful experience, but I agree with Pan, DV ( and violence in general ) is quite often alcohol related.

( someone asked if I'm male??... Er, no - I'm not )

Pan why are you insisting that alcohol is a factor in most cases of DV?

I don't disagree wth you, alcohol is a great disinhibitor and you may be right that it would make someone who isn't normally aggressive, much more likely to be so,.

But we know that on average, a woman is attacked 34 times by her abuser, before she calls the police. Most of those times are not attacks which result in hospitalisation or reports to other agencies and many of those incidences may not inolve alcohol at all. Alcohol is not the cause of DV, merely an exacerbator. During prohibtion, dry abusers continued to attack their dry wives.

In addition to which, the eggshell-treading in the lead-up to an attack (whcih may or may not involve booze) isn't fuelled by alcohol - it's fuelled by a sense that an attack is being worked up to

daftpunk pre-dc my boyfriend and i had the discussion about working.i couldnt be with man who wouldnt support my ongoing career.being a sahm was never on table,at all.i was viewing nurseries 8wk pg and had Ft nursery place booked 12wk pg.always knew that was the parent i would be

i was brought up to work hard ,stick in at school and earn your keep.that is my personal individual ethos.and i work the hours i have to

and yes i have benefited from the petitioning and political agitation of others.i am fortunate

In other words, only men can legally rape, Larry.

Saying men rape is entirely correct. It does not mean someone is against men if they believe men rape. It is a statement of fact.

And if you are a decent man and don't like being branded as a potential rapist (according to your reading of the statement 'men rape') why not do something about rape instead of complaining that you are one of the nicer men who wouldn't dream of raping? Why not try to make it a part of the regrettable history of humanity, speak out against it, and ensure you are and other men are not counted among the goats?

If men as a group are offended by the fact that men rape, as opposed to being personally offended at the notion that 'men' rape, then get up and do something about rape. Women hate it. Women would like to see an end to it. It's very bad PR for men. How can you, as a man, work against it?

CRP out of 26 pages I think you are maybe referring to 4 or so pages where a lot of posters disagreed strongly with one poster who had made a very personal attack on another poster and quite a few of us objected to that. So a large part = approx 16%?

I, for my part, have seen much worse in court! This has all been pretty civilised in comparison. Maybe you move in much more polite circles than myself

In my own particular experience, the violence was bubbling under first and alcohol was actually a complete excuse to let it rip (and blame the day after...)

So not the cause, nor even a disinhibitor at all

Stacey - I am indeed insisting on alcohol being directly related to DV offences, not causing them but certainly facilitating them to a large degree. I am curious that this notion should be so contentious.

Each month I chair a panel of professionals and we look at how 'new' DV perpetrators who have been given non-custodial disposals that month in our borough should be managed. On av. this numbers about 10. At least, 8 of these will have been commited during or after alcohol. Sometimes it's all of them. When one comes up that isn't rleated to alcohol it raises our collective eyebrows. In some ways these are the more worrying. i.e. 'you do this sort of thing when sober?? What do you do when drunk??!'

Prohibtion stats would be interesting, but if you mean in U.S. decades ago I am not sure what credibility they would carry.

Alcohol may provide the occasion for DV, but it is not the cause.

Plenty of men get drunk or tipsy or whatever, and no-one gets slapped around.

Just reading your post Math and thought to myself, wow, wouldn't that be something, as well as groups like Women Against Rape why not Men Against Rape. I wonder if there are any such groups...off to google.

Pan...you do realise that mind set "what do you do when drunk then?" is to some degree excusing the anti-social behaviour

don't you ???

BDJ - maybe I do!.

Accept your analysis totally - yes dittany was name-called but other stuff was around. I am NOT the thread police...>

Stacey Solomon - yes I think groups for perpetrators of DV often start with the premis that there is no excuse

It doesn't matter if your dad hit your mum or you had to much to drink or your team lost that day ... You should not abuse your partner.