A good job there aren't many men on MN

[Truckulent]

I think men would be shocked at the level of resentment leveled at them on MN. Almost a seething mass of contempt at times.

I'm a man, been on here for years. And I was surprised by it.

AIBU to think it's a good job there aren't many men on here, or would more men posting help men and women understand each other better?

Beachcomber,

This idea to generalise along the line of sexes is somewhat obtuse. I cannot imagine there would be less women only days at swimming pools under a female dominated system, for instance.

You could equally generalise one level higher and say all systems run by human beings are unfair and that we should put a chimp or a computer in charge. Would that make you guilty for being a member of humanity? After all, it is only humans who rape other humans. Surely you can see that is perfectly analogous to saying that all men should feel guilty as men predominantly rape.

You either treat people as individuals or members of a group and when a group is 50% of the human race, it ceases to have meaning as a homogeneous group.

Larry....what is your point? It's hard to decipher one, sorry.

We can generalise about the 'sexes' because so much is set in favour of men, whether you wish to read/acknowledge difference is up to you, but it is there for all to see.

Larry I don't know why you keep insisting on this idea that I think all men should feel guilty because some men rape.

I don't - I think society should be more concerned than it currently is about sexual violence.

Neither do I want a female dominated system (that would be unequal you see).

I find it very odd that you don't see that it is possible to talk about men or women as a socially constructed group in any sensible way.

For example a fairly straightforward statement would be to say that men as a group hold most of the world's wealth.

This does not mean that all men are rich and all women are poor. It isn't that hard to understand surely?

I can understand that it could be an uncomfortable feeling for a man to know that it is his sex which carry out most rapes. However let me tell you, it is a much more uncomfortable feeling to be part of the group which is raped the most.

"those that wish to deny that we live in a society where men have it all their own way,"

TFP - I tick the 'strongly disagree' box. Men do not have it all their own way. This is contrary to the notion ( which I suscribe to) that the patriarchal, and the capialist, nature of our society penalises both genders, though this penalty falls far more heavily on females, and that is undeniable.
To evolve away from this position really isn't assisted by women ripping each other up.
Answers to the DV issue?:

1. reassuring women and men they don't have to put up with it, and reporting will be effective.( the evidence pointed to by Snorbs re the levels of DV on males appears in Hansard and was subject in a thread a few weeks ago)
2. Sentencing - very sharp sentencing, AND effective community disposals. IME the 'threshold' for successful completion of these must be higher.
3. Public campaign, badged perhaps by well-known male media figures. Emphasis also on young men's violence which is scarily supportive of giving your partner a clout now and then.
4. Some kind of local naming and shaming scheme. >

oh and alcohol control maybe. The massive majority of DV incidents are related to alcohol consumption. Two-thirds of murder/manslaughters are commited in drink.

could be being a bit naive in this wish though.

CRP....well perhaps Men have it all their own way is an overstatement, it's certainly more their way than ours. (assuming we are women)

and finally....who is the OP? I have been around, on and off since July 2006 and I have never had his reg. application cross my desk. Truck - are you namechanging?

Sorry to return to basics but I find following the conversation here v difficult partly because as a newbie here I have no idea which of the posters here are make and which female.

eg gathered that the patronising policeman is actualy a woman though she sure as hell doesn't write/sound like one. What about the LDR (have I remembered those intials right?). DaftPunk? Larry and Craig and OP are all presumably men. Shrieking Harpy? Lemon something-or-ther? Certainly sound like men.

Don't know any women who aren't feminists - whether or not they bother using that term.

Can't imagine why any self-respecting women would not want better rights for women and a better life for women.

Those who've been saying rape isn't really so bad, women have it so good, only women with shit lives are feminists etc - come on, they've got to be men with nothing better to do. And a real problem with women.

I can't believe there are any women stupid enough to write that stuff.

Larry - I don't think I've seen anyone say all men should feel guilty as men predominantly rape on this thread - can you point me to the post(s) you're thinking of please in case I've missed them?

Also, your analogy about putting another animal in charge instead of humans doesn't really make much sense - "only humans who rape other humans" - that's because only humans have the social construct of laws and therefore the concept of consent surely? Any nature programme on TV usually shows some creature 'raping' another creature (or as the programme I was watching the other day, two zookeepers hoping one male komodo dragon would 'rape' the female so that they would breed but until Komodo dragons institute a Komodo legal system the female dragon just has to fight her corner physically).

A better analogy (as Beachcomber has used to good effect several times) is race - it's an immutable characteristic and the roots of the disadvantages it causes are in history but sadly still very much alive today. As a white middle-class person do I feel personally guilty about racism even if I do not feel I have ever been consciously racist? Probably not, but I am aware that I was born in a country that benefited hugely from colonialism and empire and slavery so I have indirectly benefited from that and one of the ways I would personally try and redress that is by looking to support international charities working to eradicate poverty and raise living standards in those countries. Another way is by being a business mentor to gcse children at an inner-city school in a disadvantaged area where the majority of pupils are from a non-UK non-white heritage.

That's what I think a lot of the posters are asking the men on this thread to give some thought to - okay, granted you did not set up the patriarchal system that favours and advantages men over women thousands of years ago (and in some circumstance can disadvantage men cf. parental leave set up in the UK), but you do enjoy those privileges of that system in the here and now - so if you a decent human being (and a decent parent to your daughters AND your sons and want them to have every opportunity possible) you'd want to look at how that imbalance can be redressed to ensure equality for all. That's all I'm asking anyway - can't really speak for other posters but JessInAvalon was trying to engage in some thought about tackling root causes of DV for example.

Now if I was as disingenous as some anti-feminist posters on here, I would mildly enquire why women aren't welcome on Punternet?

"all men should feel guilty as men predominantly rape." - where has a feminist said that again?

Stacey - they would be welcolme on places like punternet ( though I have nooo expereince of it). Welcome perhaps only for 'sporting' purposes.

granted - the men posting so far after a skim read are me, Beenbeta, the OP, Unquietdad (obv) and err..that's it. All others are women. Sorry if I have left any men out. Others will may come across are nannynick, Adeldebois ( or something similar) TaDa, Networkguy, NiceGuy, TechlovingDad...and a few more who I don't know of.

Techlovingdad posted too, and another guy who I've forgotten whose name possibly included some numbers.

And deepheat.

And how could we forgot dear Larry?

And (possibly :)) Snorbs, TiggyD

Ah, that was it, Caron1968.

And probably others :)

oops! I even namechecked Snorbs above!! My spreadsheet is useless. As are my powers of short-term memory..

Just as a matter of interest, why are so many of the feminists here obsessed with a site called "punternet"? Never bothered to check it out myself as it sounds a bit tacky, but seems like half the feminists on this board spend time there.

You forgot mayorquimby - who one day I intend to closely quiz about his name.

there was a visit from some punternet regulars a week or two back. So more the other way round, they are fascinated with us apparently.

oh niceguy2 has been on this thread CRP if he is the same as niceguy - managed to tell us we were all 'bleating' i think and then likened women to zombies and he was the only human being set upon. Very strange. I havent been on MN for very long but this thread has certainly opened my eyes to what a lot of the men posting on here actually think of women and its pretty dispiriting. Why is it women having a debate have to be characterised as bleating or ripping each other up - so dismissive and unnecessary.