A good job there aren't many men on MN

[Truckulent]

I think men would be shocked at the level of resentment leveled at them on MN. Almost a seething mass of contempt at times.

I'm a man, been on here for years. And I was surprised by it.

AIBU to think it's a good job there aren't many men on here, or would more men posting help men and women understand each other better?

Larrygrylls - yes I was waiting for someone to make that comments. Of course it's utopian. Wouldn't it be great to end violence against women, don't you think?

Another stat from yesterday - the police receive one call every minute about a domestic abuse incident. That's a huge drain on police resources. I've no idea how much that costs in terms of police time, the judicial system, etc.

If we could eliminate half of the incidence of DV, that would be huge saving to the country. Yes, there'll always be incidence of it sadly but we could promote the full scale cultural change that would make it completely unacceptable and try and eliminate as much of it as possible.

We are talking about billions of £s that is spent on dealing with unnecessary male abuse against women. So what, as a country, are we doing about this? The feminists I know are very actively lobbying the government but I don't know of any non-feminists who are doing anything.

People are lobbying the government to collect unpaid taxes. How about lobbying the government on tackling domestic abuse and it's root causes?

What would non-feminists say that the root causes of domestic abuse are? (Serious question)

Bi-sexual communes actually don't sound so bad DP. Better than being trapped at home all alone, in the claws of mononuclear family...

Blimey it's like Gladiators on here. All the big shouty posters on one thread.

I agree with ccpccp.

What was discussion descended into point scoring and wilful misrepresentation of each other's posts.

Dittany;

How can you take a hypocrite seriously?

Diane Abbott had her son privately educated whilst expecting the rest of us to put up with inadequate schools. She herself described her decision as "indefensible" - and comments she has made have been described as "racist" by a senior journalist.
I can't stand the woman...

Hi CommanderDrool
I think you are new to this thread? (Although I haven't read all the pages.)

Do you have any suggestions to my question above? I'm interested in the discussion that people who don't identify with feminism can put forward.

I do find it funny that in every discussion about feminism I've ever been involved in, the feminists get abused whilst trying to engage and explain. There have been several articles in the local press lately attacking feminists for objecting to something that they didn't actually object to (the police did).

Yet feminists were called: jealous, hags, rabid crones, spitting, ranting, militant, pathetic, green eyed monsters, fat (from people who have never seen us), and someone even wished us dead.

And all for, drum roll......e-mailing some councillors! The descriptions given above were put forward by journalists and in comments listed below the articles. It was quite ironic because people would ask us to explain our position and, when we did, we would be called shouty, shrill, overbearing, and all for answering questions that people specifically asked of us regarding our position.

Daftpunk - the thing is, that's one example of one woman. It would be like saying that all male politicians are useless liars because of Jeffrey Archer and Jonathan Aitken.

Are you saying that all women in power would be hypocrites because of one action of Diane Abbott's?

I absolutely agree with LTW. Drug addiction is the root of so much crime, poverty and hopelessness. So much crime against women. Legalisation would help many women control their addiction without being put on the streets to earn money for drugs or controlled through violence, or kept and abused by men who have access to drugs. If the NHS provides the drugs for addicts the bottom falls out of organised crime, prostitution would shrink away.

I strongly believe that.

'Bi-sexual communes actually don't sound so bad DP. Better than being trapped at home all alone, in the claws of mononuclear family...'

Hold the door open for me!

No, I'm not judging all female politicians by DA and HH. There are some fantastic female politicians out there doing some great work. I just think those two are hypocritical idiots.

The main problem with domestic abuse is not drug addiction. It's a sense of entitlement over another person. The root cause of most cases of DV is a need or desire to control another person.

I agree that drug addiction is a big contribution to prostitution though but that would reduce the need of women to get an income to feed an addiction - the supply. It doesn't tackle the demand.

Any other suggestions to tackle DV, CommanderDrool (serious question again!)?

TheShriekingHarpy Tue 23-Nov-10 12:15:07
TFP do you think that the disparity in paternity (vs maternity) leave "suits" men? Or the contempt leveled at men who have the audacity to ask for flexible working conditions?

For me, TSH, this is part of feminism. Feminists will be the ones who want and will fight for 'paternity' rights. I would love to live in a world where it wasn't assumed that a child has to have it's mother as the primary carer. I would like to see 'parental' rights around children being equally split. So in the first year or so parents could split the allowance if they wished. Nothing keeps women down like the rigid way that we are expected to stay at home and look after our children or ask another woman to do it for us (based upon the assumption that most childcarers are women). For most forward thinking parents caring for their children comes down to money, and as women usually earn less the economics seem to dictate that women are the more likely parent to be stay at home parents, even if they chose not to bf.

In terms of domestic violence. I have no idea how to end it.

Poverty, drug addiction, alcoholism, macho culture, learned behaviour, are all part of it. But it cuts across cultures and classes so that is not an explanation. Tougher sanctions against perpetrators? Will that stop it happening again on release? I doubt it. Change of culture? Maybe.

I've no idea how to stop it. What I do know is ghat when one of the Old Firm teams loses the police know they will be called to domestic violence incidents for 'the rest of the night. I don't know what to do about that.

dittany Tue 23-Nov-10 12:32:45
You're talking drivel daftpunk. Although that is par for the course.

I have to say, that when daftpunk, Bonsoir, ScottishMummy, and lemonmuffin are all united in their antipathy to feminism, it only serves to underline what a good idea it is.

This is my favourite post of the week!!

Haven't read the whole thread but wish to register my whole-hearted agreement with posters who don't like being told that, in essence, all women are oppressed by virtue of being women and if you disagree then you hate women.

Thanks CommanderDrool. Actually, as you say, it cuts across all classes so poverty isn't actually a factor. You hit the nail on the head when you said that it's a macho culture and learned behaviour (if you see your dad hitting your mum or generally being abusive, you may grow up thinking that that is normal).

So what can we do about the cultural influences and learned behaviour which are the root causes of domestic violence?

(These are the factors put forward by the domestic violence coordinator at my local council and at the neighbouring council and also in Lundy Bancroft's book, Why Does He Do That? about the domestic abusers that he works with in his programmes in the US.)

I have my own ideas about what we can do about it but I'm interested in what others (non feminists) would advocate doing to tackle it.

Only catching up with this thread again now. I saw the acronym MRA mentioned last night - what does it stand for?

Dittany and expat rockin today!.All these anti feminists are going to be in for a shock if they have daughters and they have boyfriends anything like my ds and his 'crew' !They are all 16/17 and this sexist clap trap doesn't even exist for them thank god.

I am amused at being identified as a 'non 'feminist'

I've a friend who runs a group for perpetrators of DV overseen by a psychologist. He says most of them will sit there and swear blind they are no longer doing it. Their partners tell a different story.

I think the only thing you can do is make it easier for women and children to leave. Help them be economically independent. That is feminism for 'me.

Dittany - you're right radical feminism does not equal violent feminism but I was thinking along the lines of Gerhaeuser and Rote Zora - so would that just be called violent feminism?

To put it (hopefully) more clearly, the morally repugnant extreme of any movement is always going to get more airtime because it makes a better story, regardless of whether the moderate/non-violent majority of that movement agree/are fighting for their rights in a non-morally repugnant way.

dittany Tue 23-Nov-10 12:32:45
You're talking drivel daftpunk. Although that is par for the course.

I have to say, that when daftpunk, Bonsoir, ScottishMummy, and lemonmuffin are all united in their antipathy to feminism, it only serves to underline what a good idea it is.

Dittany, I think I love you. Where is this bisexual commune that I may register for it immediately? :o