to think the Irish..

[GeruptaSingh]

...do not know a good thing when they are given one

Let them eat cheese: anger as Ireland plans handouts of cheddar to the poor

That is a headline from a newspaper

I wish someone would give me free cheese,I love the stuff

ungratefull buggers

Did anyone see that document released today from 1922? Michael Collins wrote to the Treasury concerned that he'd used his ministerial car for some personal journeys and was offering to pay half of the running costs.

If that man came back today the leaders of the country would be face down in a pool of blood.

Encyclogirl can you link or pt in me in the direction of the document plse can't seem to find it

Canyou, I can't link it but here's the text:

The Irish Times also reports that a letter has been uncovered showing a politician?s concern about his personal use of an election car. Surely some mistake? Well, it was almost 90 years ago; and it did involve Michael Collins.

The letter, written 18 days before his death at Béal na mBláth, records him offering to pay half of the bill for a car hired for canvassing during the June 1922 election because some of the journeys were personal trips.

The letter was written to Skibbereen solicitor Tom Healy who had acted as election agent for Collins and seven other candidates. He hired cars from local firm Johnson and Perrott for canvassing.

However, the Civil War erupted after the pro-treaty victory and Cork was in chaos. The solicitor was concerned about the outstanding bills from the election and wrote to the five Cork candidates who had been elected. Collins received the letter by hand on August 4th and replied the same day. ? . . . I can only say that I think it would not be fair to charge full expenses for the car which I had from Messrs. Johnson Perrot [sic] for about a week to the ELECTION FUND?, he wrote. ?Some of the journeys were private journeys, and I would say if the bill were got from Messrs. Johnson Perrot that half of it would be Election expenses and I would pay the other half myself.?

He had the car for about five days.

Despite being commander- in-chief of the National Army in the midst of a Civil War, Collins had the grace to apologise for the oversight in not settling the matter when he was in Cork.

He wrote: ?It is to be hoped however, that you will get the matter completed without much further trouble to yourself?.

He signed it Miceál Ó Coileáin, a signature he had probably used since first attending Gaelic League classes in London.

Someone later added ?Michael Collins? under the signature, presumably to indicate that ?Miceál Ó Coileáin? denoted ?Michael Collins?.

The correspondence has been in the possession of Mr Healy?s daughter, Marcie Healy, since he died in October 1957.

It appears that the solicitor had no luck in contacting the other four elected TDs and he later applied for an extension on the invoices.

Collins?s scrupulousness in handling third-party money is commensurate with his earlier employment. He had previously worked in a stockbroking company, a bank and an accountancy firm.

Definitely press for a medical card, if there is a slight chance of being entitled. My dentist specialised in geriatric dentistry, and does a lot of work on patients with complex needs - autism, mental health issues and so on. She spends hours per week trying to get child health dentists to work on patients whose parents can't afford to pay - every time I see her she is furious. But she is also furious that in the 'school dental clinics' there are dentists unable to work, because they cannot work without a nurse being present (for child protection issues). If a nurse is on maternity leave, a replacement can't be hired - so we are paying salaries of dentists to do nothing. The complete lack of common sense is astounding; the ideals of a republic (equality!) just never happened. (I'm happy to use the term Republic of Ireland for this - Northern Ireland is going to be walloped by UK cuts!)

My mother now gets a pension of around ?200 a week - this is far more than she ever earned when she worked, my Dad has the state pension & a work one too. My mother only ever worked very part-time, seems mad that she is entitled to so much.

I also think they are going to have to look at unemployment benefit - where people are entitled to their "stamps" regardless of savings or partners income. That's not sustainable IMO...

Mad mad mad.
I guess Santa will come bearing gifts of cheese this year. Wont all the kids be happy? (me thinks not)

Decorhate I don't think they can touch the benefit you are entitled to from your 'stamps'. That is your social insurance - what you pay your PRSI for and each individual is entitled to claim until their stamps run out.

Once your stamps run out you are then means tested but if you have paid your PRSI you are entitled to it regardless of your partner's income or savings. Even this government couldn't expect workers to pay PRSI that they wouldn't be entitled to claim.

Thanks stleger, I will. I can't believe she's not entitled to one tbh.

Decorhate they look at unemployment benefit after a year of stamps. I have a friend who gets nothing because his wife earns a good salary.

You used to get 15 months of 'stamps' now it's 12 months.

Expect this budget to tighten that up even further.

Oh and my parents are coining it in pension wise. They have a decent public sector pension also. They are both members of 'Active Retirement' and are always out partying with the rest of the 'wrinklies' as they call them.

My Dad worked is arse off all his life, but Mum hasn't worked since she was 21.

Apparently the Greens won't support cuts to the OAP, so if FF try to pass it, they will bring the Government down.

I have a medical card because the cost of covering my life long illness far exceeds what I wil earn in my life...

At the very least you could be under the threshold for a GP visit csrd or the long term illness scheme for meds...

Personally as a disabled mature student whose DP was made redundant after 12 years of work, I am fuming..I receive disability but claim nothing else...I dont own a house, I rent privately and do not screw the system in any way...But they are going to shaft me in the next budget..

Im telling you though once the next election comes round, Im going to have a block of cheese at the ready and if one politition comes near my door Ill shaft them whith it...

PRSI entitled people to dental and optical benefits, but they whipped a lot of that away. I can understand FF not wanting to upset people on pensions, as older people traditionally bother to go and vote - I'd have thought the Greens would be a younger 'demographic'? You'd think they'd be more concerned about upsetting the people with kids in college and secondary school. Dh has a few retired colleagues who have public sector pensions, a couple who have wives also with public sector pensions - they have enviable lifestyles. One even has a horse

I'm not poor enough for free cheese, and there's none in my county anyway. Even with a riduculous notion like this one it will be unevenly supplied and totally bolloxed up.

GeruptaSingh, you obviously have absolutely no idea what you're talking about when it comes to Ireland. Do you live in a little bubble somewhere?

I can't understand how all the posturing by the Greens and FG will help the country in the long run. No matter who is in power that huge deficit will remain.

They can bleat all they like about the oaps and the other groups that have clout but the huge deficit will remain. It's simply not right that people get free public transport no questions asked once they turn 65 while parents with sick or disabled children have to fight tooth and nail for whatever pitiful help is available. Many in the older generation lived through the (brilliant) Haughey austerity budgets of the late 70s and early 80s and were taxed up to their tonsils and now think they deserve whatever they have from the government, but that's not how deficit financing works.

It will be necessary to really spell out the causes and consequences of the financial meltdown, pulling no punches, emphasising that the whole country is in it together. The irresponsibility of different parties siding with groups like oaps is really disappointing. The last thing Ireland needs is a series of short-lived unstable governments and little special interest groups battling it out among themselves while nobody watches the real money.

The only thing that would soften the pill for all those who will have to accept cuts is a massive review of salaries in the banking sector, and a massive undertaking to make bankers accountable to the citizens who are saving their sorry butts.

Even if the OAP escapes the chop this year, next year our budget will be set by totally objective outsiders who will recognise how high it is comparative to the rest of the EU and cut it accordingly.

My biggest problem with the Pensioners is they have no problem watching special needs kids and families on welfare taking deeper cuts, so long as they're not affected.

With a 6billion gap to bridge 470000 people simply cannot be excluded from the cuts.

My Dad is all for a 10% cut or a means test. My Mother is ready to take to the streets if they take one cent from her

Also MA, it would help if Cowen wasn't the 4th highest paid leader in the world.

?354k gross sal a year.

He needs to take a hit of about 200k before he even starts to pontificate to the rest of us.

I think the selfishness of the oaps is on a par with the banking handwashers. What reasonable person seriously objects to means testing?

If the govt was smart they would be playing divide and conquer with the oaps and set the means test high enough that they really took the wind out of their sails, leaving any campaign along the lines of 'not one cent' indefensible. Surely there are some 'oap queens' with comfortable lifestyles, free bus passes, medical cards, etc., who could be contrasted unfavourably with struggling young families.

You could make a dent in the entitlements and still cover the third of the oap population that currently gets benefits it actually needs, while cutting loose the 2/3 that is doing all right thank you very much.

Oh yes, I agree BC's pay is ridiculous.

MA, totally agree with you re the selfishness of the oaps being on par with the banking handwashers.

Re BC's salary, there is so much governmental fat that could be cut: The ministerial cars, useless quangos, committees, perks, government aircraft, two presidential cars etc. This is all the product of sleazy backwater politicians playing at being royalty at the taxpayers' expense.

Frankly the Celtic Tiger was no more than a builders boom and was for the exclusive benefit of the 'Friends' of Fianna Fail and anyone else involved in Galway Tent politics.

Also to the OP to accuses us all of participating in the Country's downfall...

FYI, we were being advised by the Taoiseach and his senior minitsters that talking down the boom and being negative was suicidal.

He was wrong, the party was wrong, the hacks are wrong and the government is a farce, and now we are all paying a high price.

This thread made me quite cross yesterday, but since the horses comment I can't stop laughing.

There is no way the op can be serious after that stonker.

Whoops ministers, not minitsters. Jaysus!

My parents died 25 years ago... they were of an age to remember not just the war, but the 1930s, kids with no shoes and the rest. For people of their age 'Means Test' was a scarey concept - it seemed to be a way of keeping people in poverty, rather than helping them to have minimal comfort. I think that might be why so many older people fear the expression. I was in Belfast for the seventies, England for most of the Thatcher years... I don't remember people being so 'low' during the many crises of those decades. (I am so ancient that Reelin in the Years is current affairs, not history - but not old enough to be an OAP!) Which counties are cheese free zones

No, not the Quangos, I had high hopes my dh could have a Quango job and we'd be rich...

stleger, interesting comment. My Dad was born into a fairly pastoral lifestyle in the early 30s. A much loved only child, he never knew a hungry day. My Mum was an inner city child of a huge family and definitely knew deprivation.

She's the one fighting to hang to every cent, he's the one understanding the bigger picture.

I think the proposal is ?9 per pensioner. They currently get ?230 each a week, plus the nice fat pension my Dad gets. Mum is really worried about that side of things.

Also, OAPs have a loooooooong memory. My Mum will not vote FG because they cut the OAP in the 1920s when they were Cumainn na nGeal. She wasn't even born, but she's still bitter!

So are PRSI contributions purely to cover any unemployment? In the UK the equivalent is National Insurance but think it covers other stuff such as state pension. And it doesn't matter how much you've paid in, you are still means tested...

On the voting thing -- it's not even going to benefit the Greens to back the oaps to the hilt when election day rolls around. Most older people vote for the party they've always voted for, and that's either FF or FG, maybe Labour. The Greens appeal is to a much younger group for the most part.

My mum wouldn't vote FG is you doubled her pension and threw in 10 lbs of cheese a week for good measure. My grandad was sentenced to be shot by the Free Staters but escaped from their clutches. She would vote Green way down the ticket because she would essentially be voting against FG in her particular constituency.

Out of interest Mathanxiety who would you vote for? I am from Dublin but now living in Northern Ireland. Not sure how I would vote if I was still living there, I just know I would not be voting for FF.