not to understand people with very young children who say they have no choice but to work?

[nesomja]

Whenever there's anything that touches on being a SAHM / WOHM on here, several people pop up saying how lucky people are to have a choice, that they have no choice but to work and basically to stop whinging about it. I can't work it out because I am pretty sure that next year when I will have two under-3s, it will cost us money for every day I work as childcare is so expensive. So are all the people who say they have no choice those with older children or only one child? Or are they very high earners or do they have access to low cost childcare? For me it feels the other way round, that I will not be able to choose to work - but yet it often seems to be presented as if SAHM are living a luxury lifestyle, propped up by their wealthy husbands. Why is it okay not to be able to afford not to work, but not okay not to be able to afford to go to work?

I have a three year old,since she was 6 months old I have worked because we couldn't afford for me to stay home any longer.

I work nights because I cannot afford childcare.

Moraldisorder, true, it probably was easier for me than if I had a career I loved.

Ultimately whatever decision we make we believe it's what's best for our DC's, whether you believe they're best with a sahm or with more money for a nicer house in a better area and future uni fees. As long as we feel we're doing the best for our DC's what does it matter what others think?

Sorry to previous posters, new here and posting after reading op.

Choice doesn't come into it for me.

As a single parent I have 2 options, rely on the state for benefits or go out and work. I 'chose' to work.

I have 2 ds's, 14 & 5 who are both now in full time school. I had six months maternity leave with both of them then returned to work, because I needed to provide a roof over our heads, food, clothing etc.

I chose to have my children, and I choose to work, because I can not and would not be able to live with my conscience if I were to allow others (through JSA or IS) to provide for my children.

Yes I receive Working Families Tax Credit which basically covers 75/80% of my youngest's breakfast and after school club fees. I actually pay more in PAYE each month than I receive in WFTC, so I feel somewhat vindicated for receiving it.

Not to mention reinforcing the stereotypical view of some people about single parent families and benefits!!!!

I'm sorry if my post is harsh or annoys anyone. Yes I would love to be a SAHM, but financially it is not viable and what kind of example is that sending to my children? I want my children to have nice things and appreciate them, not live on state handouts and expect them.

Loubeedoo - not harsh at all, I admire anyone who refuses to live on state handouts. For you those are your only 2 options. I'm only a sahm because thankfully DH's income allows it and is happy with it.

Crazy - yes, THAT I could understand - if you saw work as a vocation - if you had a real passion for it.

Working ONLY to stay in employment seems a bit of a long shot, and good pension schemes don't happen these days unless you work in the police.

That's really the point that many posters have said louby. It is often presented as if there is free choice for all, but I just don't think it is the case for most women. I think that if one could survive and if one could keep one's house and if it was possible to halt a career for 7 years and go back relatively easily and if you could still help with university, then I think lots of women would stay home for a few years, but that's too many "ifs". Sorry, I know all those ifs were probably annoying.

YABU and I don't understand your OP

Believe me moral, it wasn't planned that way, but you just have to accept what life throws at you.

I don't think that the reasons to work/stay at home are as black and white as you present it though.

I went back to work part time because I wanted to rejoin the human race. The money was secondary.

A lot of people have jobs not careers. All they want is enough to live on and perhaps a bit left over, they don't want status or prestige. I have a friend like this. She works in a school because the hours suit her and she doesn't need to find childcare for her daughter. There are an awful lot of mums like this because they don't want or can't have anyone else looking after their children.

I've heard the logic. Does the heart have a say in the decision making?

I've said this before I think on this thread. I think that the heart is more likely to play a part if you are more willing to take a risk. If you like security, as many do, it might seem better not to rock the boat. Different personalities.

Some people give up work because they didn't earn much and/or hated it. Others because they weren't any good at it and would never have been promoted. It's hard to generalise.

But there is certainly an argument that you best protect your children long term by keeping some kind of ability to work going just in case of things going wrong later.

The hardest thing I find to understand is how anyone even if they have a full time nanny, weekend nannies and a housekeeper likes not to be economically active in a career they love. Don't they get bored?

Moraldisorder - my comment re: missing years of childhood was to counter-balance the missed years of career - it's a balanced argumentm, nothing judgemental unless you wish to read it as such.

Re: my friend who basically doesn't see her children, I believe that is a lifestyle choice because my friend has told me as such. She'd prefer the big house, she finds her career stimulating and says she'd rather eat her only foot than spend 5 whole days a week with her children. I used her as an example to counterbalance my SAHM friends. Both are vaild examples. Neither are judgemental.

Fair enough.

In response to heart coming in to the decision. I guess thats where people differ. I don't often let my heart come in to decisions that affect mine r my children's futures. I like to look at all the possibilities that could happen as a result of my choice and thend ecide whats best.

For me, leaving myself or my children open to being relient on somebody else to keep us in the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed is a no go. I've been accused of being untrusting before but its not always about a man leaving you.. he could get ill, or be made redundant, or have a midlife crisis... fair enough so could I but at least if there's two of us who can provide then we've covered our bases!

YABU.

Of course, logically there's a number of options for every decision in life. However, for many of us the alternative to working is so unpalatable that it isn't a genuinely free choice.

Work or lose your home. Work, or be dependent on an alcoholic, financially stupid or otherwise unreliable partner. Work or claim benefits when you've been brought up to consider this an absolute last resort for desperate people and/or scroungers.

They don't look like free choices to me.

noseynoonoo I've just remembered that my beef with your post was the fact you said your friend basically never sees her children? if she's home in time for bath then she's only missing 3 hours of after school 5 days a week.. assuming theyre at school.

I would love to not be afford to work!

I hate, no despise leaving my 10 month old babies at home, but if i don't work we can't pay the mortgage on the 3 bed semi which we call home.It is not lavishly furnished, we do not holiday regularly, and drive bangers of cars, we dress in clothes from tesco or george. I have my hair done about 3 times year. Our lifestyle is not indulgent. Yet we are both good earners, but basically could not afford to give up my salary.

I beg you please explain how you can NOT afford to work?

ps please don't tell me that I and other hard working people are paying for you to stay at home and enjoy your children? And people can't understand why this country is going to the dogs! Sorry if this is harsh, but its how i feel!

No I don't get bored. There is plenty round the house for me to do without it being the stress that many working parents find trying to squeeze it all in. I can go to the gym, play tennis, rollerblade, take a day out to go walking in the countryside, meet friends for lunch etc. Now the kids are at school I might look for something part time within school hours or I might do some voluntary work or do a course. My husband isn't much for housework now so we have less arguments about whose turn it is to do the dishes etc, it suits us. If we ever split then obviously that could be a problem so then I might envy those mums who have the ability to support themselves. At the moment though I enjoy my life if others want to be superwoman and need a high powered career then good for them, if things go tits up for me then they can have the last laugh.

I dont think anyone would laugh begonyabampot, I've seen it happen too many times to find it even remotely funny.

I am a sahm and sometimes I do wish I was working, but really we could never afford childcare costs, plus I have worked in nurseries in the past and do not like them.

I really do miss working though.
So yes YABVVVU

Mummy2bookie-why is op vvvu?It seems she can't justify childcare costs the same as you!?

Justify or afford btw..

I have n't read the whole thread , but find it anthropalogically facinating. I haobserved before like so much in our society having children very closely spaced is the preserve of the very rich and the very poor. Also having more than 2 or three children by choice. This tread has illuminated why this might be.

Mummy2Bookie

you are in the same position as the Op so why do you find her unreasonable - you say you can't afford to work.

I am so pleased to have been sahm. Had I not I would have remained someone else's wage slave, faithfully following a well-worn career path (YAWN) - instead of starting my own business with the potential to earn £££ more than I ever could had I conformed to what was expected of me.

Something else: being sahm to 2 x pre-schoolers is easily the hardest thing I've ever done. Having survived it, I am confident I could do anything. Whereas before when I worked for someone else I thought I was pretty ordinary .

'
If you're on a poor wage and have to pay towards childcare I can see why some people think they can't afford to work.'

My husband and I are noth minimum wage workers so we get our childcare free but it does mean no ctc left for yourself and doesnt make you better off really but I still think its worth doing. I am in a job where my child is with me though.