not to understand people with very young children who say they have no choice but to work?

[nesomja]

Whenever there's anything that touches on being a SAHM / WOHM on here, several people pop up saying how lucky people are to have a choice, that they have no choice but to work and basically to stop whinging about it. I can't work it out because I am pretty sure that next year when I will have two under-3s, it will cost us money for every day I work as childcare is so expensive. So are all the people who say they have no choice those with older children or only one child? Or are they very high earners or do they have access to low cost childcare? For me it feels the other way round, that I will not be able to choose to work - but yet it often seems to be presented as if SAHM are living a luxury lifestyle, propped up by their wealthy husbands. Why is it okay not to be able to afford not to work, but not okay not to be able to afford to go to work?

well, the same point I was just making to noseynoonoo...

Also, why is it clear to you that the woman in the example was putting her lifestyle before her children?

Maybe she feels her children are better off living in a big house, having the opportunity to travel, being able to save for their uni fees etc etc maybe she doesnt see that her children will suffer in anyway. There is no proof that children of SAHMs do any better than any other child after all.

I think maybe the woman in the example puts her lifestyle and her children as joint priority as the two things are very much interlinked.

Crazycatlady, I agree. The word 'choice' is often bandied about on here like its black and white.

I cannot work in my very successful pre baby career. I have no choice because we can not afford for me, work my butt off at the gym, travel up to London with on trend clothes, schmoozing mejia nutjobs into possably giving me more work.

We did have a choice to buy a small house in an unfashionable area and saved very hard for a number of years. (At one point the bus back from town was seen as decadent and for emergencies only)

I always like to think we had and have choices and that we can all change things in the future.

Soooo yanbu, I cannot afford to work at what I am good at but I have discovered I am great at being a Mum and will no doubt continue to 'work' throughout my life.

Themeow - You're lucky to be able to have free childcare.

I can see both sides of the argument clearly, ultimately it really depends on your wage and how much you can afford for childcare.

If you're on a poor wage and have to pay towards childcare I can see why some people think they can't afford to work. On the other hand if you can have free childcare (especially from loving family members) and earn a decent wage you'd be silly to stay at home!

Unfortunately my mum works full-time and DH's mum is too old to look after DS. If I went back to work we'd be paying for childcare and I would be on a low wage.

Someone said earlier that after childcare costs they only earnt £20 a week. If you need that £20 then obviously you have to work, but if I don't really need that £20 of course I'd rather be at home having fun with DS.

But that £20 could be £200 quid once the children are at school and childcare costs deminish... surely better to keep your hand in.. even if only for £20?

Yes, of course, lots of families would be happy to pay a cleaner who brings two pre-schoolers to the job with them .

I would.. and do!

That's the whole point, people need to be flexible and think outside of the box. Maybe lots of people assume that no one would employ them to clean their house because they'd have to take their kids rather than turn up on the door step with a smile and a mop and prove that they can do it efficiently?

Surely that depends on whether you're career driven or not? I spent years working in a supermarket when I left college as I couldn't get a job in admin due to lack of experience. When I finally got a job in admin I started at the bottom on a terrible wage then discovered I was pregnant. I absolutely hated office work when I started doing it, if it hadn't been for my pregnancy I'd have gone straight back to my old job with poor prospects.

yy, moraldisorder

Couldn't agree more.

It could be more than £200 if, by having kept a hand in, you were able to move up a level or two.

Yes YABU.

Like to think of myself as a high earner but sadly I don't think I am.

asouthwoldmummy; I dont want to use you to prove my point but basically this proves my feeling that a lot of people who took the choice to 'sacrifice their lifestyle' selflessly for the good of their children in order to be able to stay home and give them the best care rather than 'farm them out to strangers' etc etc are actually just people who never wanted to work in the firrst place.

Many people are still making the assumption that you will have two or three children to pay childcare for. Many parents who know that they will both need to work, will space their children a little more, so that only one is in paid childcare at one time, so people do plan.

Another argument is that everyone has real choice. However choosing to do without a holiday abroad or forgoing one car for a while, is not the same as "choosing" to move to an area with poor schools or high crime. If, by working and using your good education, you can have the good school, the safe area, maybe some swimming lessons, then that too is a "putting children first choice", just as SAH can be.

"asouthwoldmummy; I dont want to use you to prove my point but basically this proves my feeling that a lot of people who took the choice to 'sacrifice their lifestyle' selflessly for the good of their children in order to be able to stay home and give them the best care rather than 'farm them out to strangers' etc etc are actually just people who never wanted to work in the firrst place"

Utter nonsense. Some people just aren't career driven. Can you not accept that?

I am not career driven, perhaps because I have done it, been there and got the T-shirt. Some people, like me, find that their priorities change once children come along. We can't all be the same.

Exactly 40deniertights, its not all about being able to buy nice shoes!

Although it would be nice to pick my daughter up from school more often, what's better in the long run, mum at the school gates or mum being able yo pay for 4 years of uni so she can study rather than slog her guts out waitressing or whatever at the cost of a good degree?

I'm a bitter old realist though. I know a lot of women who stayed at home and ended up 40 odd with no experience, divorced, no thanks from the kids and having to take a job in supermarket while their ex lives the life of riley of the back of all his paid work that he did while she was caring for the kids. Not for me thanks!

bunbaker I can accept that yes, of course. But a lot of people arent honest about that being the reason they chose to be a SAHM, its all about martyrdom and self sacrifice.

My mum was/is that person moral so I guess this colours my viewpoint too. Not that I'm planning on divorcing DH anytime soon but still, being financially dependent and losing/lacking career skills isn't something I want for myself.

Maybe you are right. I am only presenting things from my own perspective. I worked for over 20 years before DD was born and am mortgage free and have savings for when DD goes to uni.

Thanks bunbaker.

Moraldisorder if you don't want to use me to prove your point then don't. It isn't a case of not wanting to work. Those years of working in a supermarket I worked my arse off for peanuts compared to sitting in an office doing the filing and answering the phone. But it's what I enjoyed more, maybe to some people happiness is more important than money.

If we weren't adequately able to provide for DS with me being a sahm then I would go back to work. But if we have a roof, clothes and food then I certainly won't feel guilty for choosing to be a sahm.

To be honest I can't understand why you'd go to work for no money - just to pay for childcare. Yes, I've heard all the rationalisations and justifications about working to stay in employment and to earn a pension, but something is missing?

Thats fab bunbaker. You are completely independant and as such who gives a flying fig if/ why you chose to be a stay at home mum

I should think that many (dare I say ALL) of us on here wish we were in your position.

I was just pointing out that a lot of people do seem to think that if you dont need to work financially, i.e. if you can technically survive on one income, then you either make a selfless choice (stay at home with your children) or a selfish choice (go out to work) when actually as much as any of us like to think we are the martyr, we do very much prioritise our own lifestyle choices when making this decision.

Don't forget though that for some people work is more a vocation and/or a passion than a means to pay the bills, and taking significant time out to be at home with the children isn't a viable option, even if you're just breaking even, or even coming in slightly negative, once childcare is considered.

This is often true of people who run their own businesses or work in the arts for example.

Quite right southwoldmum, but my point is that its a lot easier to choose to stay at home if you dont enjoy having a career...

animation what do you mean is something missing?

lots of 'evens' in that post..

It was in reply to animation

3 even