not to understand people with very young children who say they have no choice but to work?

[nesomja]

Whenever there's anything that touches on being a SAHM / WOHM on here, several people pop up saying how lucky people are to have a choice, that they have no choice but to work and basically to stop whinging about it. I can't work it out because I am pretty sure that next year when I will have two under-3s, it will cost us money for every day I work as childcare is so expensive. So are all the people who say they have no choice those with older children or only one child? Or are they very high earners or do they have access to low cost childcare? For me it feels the other way round, that I will not be able to choose to work - but yet it often seems to be presented as if SAHM are living a luxury lifestyle, propped up by their wealthy husbands. Why is it okay not to be able to afford not to work, but not okay not to be able to afford to go to work?

Hmmm maybe I didn't come across very clearly. I meant that a lot of families are in a position where they NEED to use some form of childcare i.e. working different shifts, using family etc just isn't possible for them, neither is having a SAHM/SAHD. It's the position we were in. I would have preferred to stay at home for the first 2/3 years at least, but I'd much prefer to have my DD in a nursery 3 days than to not have a DD at all! I was responding to the point that people don't plan ahead, which made it sound as though these issues could be avoided if only people thought a bit more.

"if you accept that childcare can actually be a very good thing, and that children can actually be happy in that environment and can grow up into well adjusted happy teenagers and adults, then you open up all sorts of opportunities for yourself and your family"

Maisie I absolutely do believe this, sorry if my post implied otherwise.

Sorry, mu fault - I misunderstood your post

Only read first post (bad etiquette but I never have the time to go on here properly anymore!)

Just to say it will never cease to amaze me that 'I dont have the choice but to work' or 'I have to work' it is always interpreted as that the person is has to work for money.

We are programmed to work. A lot of people consider that they dont have the choice not to work because they need stability for their families, they need 'a plan', they need financial independance from their partners, they need some luxuries, they need to know when their child comes home having broken the strap on their shoes for the third time that year, they can buy their child new shoes... There are 101 reasons for people needing to work, and its not always about money.

This ridiculous martyrdom about struggling on with hardly any money to come in to the house so that you can be at home with your kids is just silliness. And of course you can afford to work with 2 children.. you might only be just about breaking even for athe first few years but there is a way bigger picture going on here...

But some may be so useless or have such a low IQ or live in an area where there is no well paid work that they will earn at 67 when they retire what they started on at 16. You would have thought though that more might think they will be able to better themselves over th eyears so working at a slight loss of a time is not too bad.

"I am relatively high earner, probably not by MN standards - but in excess of 50K"
Not by MN standards!!! That's a fortune in my book, but then I don't live in London.

No wonder it seems like every other person on here buys from Boden. I live in a different world.

I would love to stay at home with my son. As it is childcare for him costs £30 a day. I earn about 3 times that a day. If I don't work we can't pzy the mortgage. We were the unlucky ones nd bought in 2007, so we have a massive mortgage and are in negative equity so we can't move somewhere cheaper.

Saying that we never go on holiday, have one cheap car, and live in 3 bed house in an ex-mining village.

Thats my point Xenia, and its a bit off point but I think lessons in ambition would be beneficial in school..

How many times have you heard a woman saying 'Theres no point in me working because by the time I've paid childcare I wont be any better off'??

I fin it very sad. Even those with a low IQ or in an area with no employment opportunites can get something out of working even if it doesnt make them rich financially.

roslily I know quite a few women who wish they'd 'had to' work when their kids were young as theyre now in their late 30s/40s with no experience and a 12 year gap on their CV..

It seems hard now and I do sympathise but I reckon you'll look back and be pleased it turned out that way.. What do you think?

It's a fascinating topic. Many women (much more so than men) think they're pretty useless and won't get anywhere. Others think they can achieve a lot (which I've always done). So what causes that?

Is it because I'm the oldest child? (Child position in family has an effect).

Is it purely objective factors - I'm quite clever and hard working etc so genuinely on any assessment I would be likely to do better wherever I came from than other people?

Is it balance of hormones or testosterone or stuff in our brains?

Is it being loved as a child or having parents or schools where you were expected to get a reasonable job rather than work in a call centre?

Is it class or family money?

Is it diet - that I eat well and so I'm happier and never ill (touch wood) and able to work harder than most people?

Someone put a leaflet through our door this morning - they are offering to buy your stuff you'd otherwise throw out and sell it for you and keep a commission.

Someone last week put a leaflet through offering any kind of pet care including cleaning out animals.

Some people do those things. This Autumn until I went away a week ago I was working very hard even by my standards, seeing 5 - 7am as a working hours slot.

It's all to play for. Women can have such fun with work if they seize the day etc.

Exactly Xenia.. I am in employment so I hear more than most from women about how they cant find a job or make any money.

My cleaner put a leaflet through the door of everyhouse within a 2 mile radius about a year ago saying... 'I'll do anything for £7 an hour...'
I admired her initiative and booked her for 3 hours a week cleaning... she was the best cleaner ive ever had so I reccommended her to 3 of my friends who now all use her. She does babysitting, ironing, painting, waitressing at house parties etc etc a couple of weeks ago she was telling me how she had so many requests that she was going to set up a business and get others to do the work for her, taking a cut.. while she studies.

(I'm sure she got a few unsolicited advances though saying she'd do 'anything!)

That was a brave leaflet!!

Good for her though - what a fab ethic.

Ah yes, apparently France has young women advertising for cheap flats and men advertising for cheap women to flat share being a rent with benefits. Bit like being a housewife I suppose - you put out and your husband pays.

Haha Xenia, you have a point... I can't see many differences between that and many 'normal' marriages!

I actually know someone currently who is moving in with a man she doesnt like very much because she doesnt want to work and he is rich... it beggers belief that this shit goes on..

Xenia, I've seen adverts like that in France, but they've usually been by gay Jewish men who want their mother the world to think they are in a hetrosexual relationship.

My mind always boggled.

Its a weird world we live in huh?

We only bring in £1400 a month between us and thats with my husband working full time and me working 25 hours. We get no other benefits except childcare. I could not work and claim benefits but Im not like that. I dont claim housing benefit and have never had any other benefit except for cb and tax credits that all go towards childcare. I would be better off not working and just letting my husband work and also if I claimed hb but I wont do it.

I only have 1 child as I dont want to be a burden and claim benefits so will work until my first goes to school so only one is in childcare.

shame everyone doesnt have those ethics snowflake.

Good for you snowflake, although I hope you realise not all sahm's are on benefits. I'm a sahm and we don't get hb, just cb and ctc, which everyone gets anyway.

We all know of sahm's who are more than happy to live off the state and claim everything they can, but I don't think that has anything to do with being a mum. These are people who imo are workshy and would live off the state anyway. I know of a 15yo girl who deliberately got pregnant for the sole reason of wanting a council house.

I am not saying they are asouthwoldmummy I am saying my actually choices are be on benefits or work so I choose work. I suppose I do have a choice but one I see as unethical as I am able to work and also I have no sn needs/children etc.

You think those ads are a joke, but recently, whilst perusing the 'to rent' market in London online, me and my DH were astonished to see quite a few ads along the 'attractive lady/man would like to live with generous partner in live-in service agreement' type thing, plus there were adverts for sharing studios and rooms (bit of a squash then). I saw it as a reflection of the recession.

We will only have one, and ds wasn't planned, at least not yet.

I was the higher wage earner when full time, I am now temporarily part time. It would be much better for my health not to work (mental health issues) But that isn't an option. Our mortgage is £800 a month. I once worked out that all our essential outgoings (bills, food, insurance) came to £2000. So we both have to work.

I get annoyed when people tell me how they just go without luxuries, holidays etc. We don't do any of that and still we both need to worl

asouthwoldmummy everyone does not get CB & CTC... Personally i think families should only get these benefits if both parents work.

what is CTC? Take it Cb is Child Benefit which we all receive (at the moment).

"I'm a sahm and we don't get hb, just cb and ctc, which everyone gets anyway."

REALLY? What is ctc and how do I get it? Lots of people on Mumsnet seem to get it - tell me how much freebie stuff I can get.

(Have heard of cb though - so no worries there)

CTC is child tax credit, which I believe we all receive unless you have such a high household income that you don't need them (like the future CB cuts).

Now putting my flame-proof coat on ready.