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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to get DD a white poppy to wear at a remembrance service?

960 replies

GallumDrawnAndQuartered · 03/11/2010 16:23

She is 14 and has been selected by the school to represent her house at their service.

DD is vehemently pacifist and anti-war.

Rather than her get in trouble for refusing to go (which is what she is planning on doing) would it be unreasonable for her to go but to wear a white poppy instead of a red one?

OP posts:
PixieOnaLeaf · 03/11/2010 19:34

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piscesmoon · 03/11/2010 19:34

I don't see why you need to get involved-leave it to DD.

atmywitssend · 03/11/2010 19:35

Agree - wrong time, wrong place to make a point.

SkeletonFlowers · 03/11/2010 19:35

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earwicga · 03/11/2010 19:35

Really sorry seeker - it was sarcasm (related to catinthehat2 at 19:06)

The website for the White Poppy Campaign has been linked to a few times in this thread and it's well worth a read.

GothAnneGeddes · 03/11/2010 19:37

Seeker - Earwigca is pro-white poppy and is pulling your leg as others have painted the PPU as a quasi fascist organisation.

Guacamole · 03/11/2010 19:37

I just want to have my two penneth worth here, if you don't mind...
The best and most respectful thing your daughter could do is speak to her Head of House (with you there if necessary) and pull out of this occasion completely.

Remembrance Sunday IMO is not a time to be making a protest about war. It is an occasion for remembering men and women who died serving their countries (either through choice or subscription) or died during their service.
This year it is more personal to me... I will be remembering my cousin (who was on R&R from his 3rd tour of Iraq when he was diagnosed with cancer) who died at the age of 25. And my brother's best friend who was killed in Afghanistan this year at the age of 35.

There may be people like me at the service, people who the occasion means a lot to, people like me who will be grieving. I would find a 14 year old wearing a white poppy offensive... I'm sorry but I would.

It was an honour for her to be chosen, she doesn't want that honour... fine let it be passed on to someone who will be honoured to participate.

ray81 · 03/11/2010 19:38

My grandad who fought in WWII refuses to partake in rememberance day.

When i was younger i was very intigued by this and asked why he did not remember with everyone else he told me,

" I remember everyday what happened and those that lost their lives, i will never forget"

Seeing the haunted look in his eyes when he told me that means every night before i go to sleep i remember them and thank them for my freedom.

OP i think your DD needs to accept she either wears the Red poppy or doesnt go.

I wear a red poppy to show respect to those that fought for our freedom and lost so much and this is the majority by the sounds of this thread. I do not wear the red poppy to support War because i dont.

Appletrees · 03/11/2010 19:44

I think it would be too easy to forget without this day. I opposed the war in Iraq but for me that is even more of a reason to remember with deep respect those who died there. I am glad later conflicts have a high remembrance profile.

Appletrees · 03/11/2010 19:46

It's a good thing to be idealistic as a fourteen year old. But one ought to have grown out of being a show off.

TandB · 03/11/2010 19:47

I agree with Piscesmoon - your daughter should do a bit more reading on this topic. If she is intelligent and mature enough to decide to take a different stance to her school's official line, she is mature enough to educate herself fully as to the meaning and significance of the poppy.

Rightly or wrongly, the poppy, and Remembrance Day as a whole, are more strongly associated with the two world wars than with any subsequent conflict - probably for the simple reason that they were on a massive scale and were long enough ago to have passed into history, with books written about them, films portraying them, and lessons about them. The poppy is about remembering the vast, almost unimaginable, number of mainly young men and women who went out, perhaps willingly, perhaps reluctantly and in great fear, and gave their lives, not just to defend their own country, but to free other nations and ensure that Europe wasn't overun by a truly horrific regime.

Remember that at the moment some of those young men died, having in some cases literally thrown themselves bodily at the enemy to try to gain a few miserable inches of land, they had no idea if their deaths were going to achieve anything at all. In both world wars, the enemy was a massive, seemingly-unstoppable war machine. Many of those young people probably died thinking we were going to lose the war, that their loved-ones back home were going to die too.

Remembrance Day is a chance for us to recognise every one of those young people. For many of them, there was no funeral, perhaps they were not even found to be buried. That is what the poppy is about. Their only chance to be formally remembered.

Whatever I may think about the rights or wrongs of more recent conflicts, I am grateful for the chance to be part of Remembrance Day. There is nothing about it that is a celebration - it's a commemoration, and a requiem mass.

pointydog · 03/11/2010 19:48

If she is vehemently anti-war and could not wear a poppy, best to pull out of the service probably.

GothAnneGeddes · 03/11/2010 19:48

She's not being a show off, she's got strongly held principles. When I was a bit older than her (15), I was a strict vegan. Not to show off, but because that was what I believed in.

pointydog · 03/11/2010 19:52

kungfu, I disagree. Remembrance Day and its services are clearly meant to be about remembering everyone who has dies during a war. It is not just about WW1 and 2.

I can understand that this teenager does not want to give money towards an armed services charity. That's ok.

I just don't think you should go along to a remembrance service and make a protest. Not the place.

jangly · 03/11/2010 19:53

Where does the money raised by selling the white poppies go to?

SkeletonFlowers · 03/11/2010 19:53

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TandB · 03/11/2010 19:54

Pointydog - I don't for one moment think that it is not. My point is that it is, for some very simple reasons, in most people's minds, more strongly associated with the two big conflicts.

thisisyesterday · 03/11/2010 19:54

no, i think it would be totally inappropriate.

i would suggest that if she feels that strongly about it she shoudl speak to her head of house and explain why she is not willing to take part

Appletrees · 03/11/2010 19:55

She is indeed if she is planning to wear a white poppy while representing her school house at a remembrance day service.

We've all been there .. fourteen and convinced we have the answers. Hunt sabbng anyone? Cnd marches? The op should be having a demanding conversation with her about the grounds for her protest, not pandering to it. That's what you're supposed to try to do, as a parent. If ypu don't understand why it's offensive, don't just deny it's offensive - look into it.

jangly · 03/11/2010 19:56

Hmm. Somehow think the red poppies are a more worthwhile cause.
I don't think it would be in good taste for her to wear a white poppy to a remembrance service. Better not to go.

TandB · 03/11/2010 19:57

I also meant to say that this decision might be a chance for your daughter to think a little more about strongly-held beliefs in general.

What would she hope to achieve by taking a particularly visible stance? Is it important to her that her beliefs are outwardly displayed? If so, why? Is it acceptable to make a compromise between her beliefs and the sensitivity of others? Is there another, more productive way of acting upon these beliefs?

holyShmoley · 03/11/2010 20:00

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Quodlibet · 03/11/2010 20:01

I think it's a good thing that your daughter is forming strong political opinions and is standing by them - but if she is going to stand by them she should go the whole hog and explain respectfully to her head why, because of the views she holds, she thinks it more appropriate for someone else to attend the service. Either she should attend the service whole-heartedly or not at all; as others have pointed out it's not an occasion for acts of rebellion or political point-making.

I remember things being extremely black and white at the age of 14, and looking back, can see that it was difficult to understand the nuances of situations. I am likewise anti-war and a pacifist, but I think as you grow older you can accommodate these views as well as understanding and appreciating the sacrifice of troops past and present who are fighting. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I recently took a group of older teenagers to interview Chelsea Pensioners for a project. They clearly had very little understanding of the issues, but seeing the transformation they underwent as a 98 yr old man - who abhors war, and believes it totally futile - articulately explained to them his story of being a Japanese POW, and how many years it took him to come to terms with his survival afterwards, was one of the most moving things I've encountered. He was a very generous man who gently helped them to re-think their not-very-well informed stances.

Hopefully your daughter's political conscience will be matched by a curiosity and empathy with other people which will allow her to explore these issues thoroughly and appreciate them for all their complexity, and pay respect where respect is due.

LookToWindward · 03/11/2010 20:01

Anyone who wears a white poppy at a remembrance service is - IMNSO - a cunt of the highest order and is

A. Ignorant
B. Attention Seeking
C. Looking to offend

or some combination there-of.

As others have said, a poppy is a symbol of remembrance not political statement. For me - if not perhaps the Royal Legion - that includes all who make the ultimate sacrifice - be they British, Russian, German, Indian, whatever.

Rocketbird · 03/11/2010 20:01

Why is she going if she disapproves so much? I work with WW2 (and did work with WW1 veterans). Ask them how they feel about white poppies. Absolutely no problem with her having opinions etc but this definitely isn't the time or place to make a stand.