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Original poster

to get DD a white poppy to wear at a remembrance service?

960 replies

GallumDrawnAndQuartered · 03/11/2010 16:23

She is 14 and has been selected by the school to represent her house at their service.

DD is vehemently pacifist and anti-war.

Rather than her get in trouble for refusing to go (which is what she is planning on doing) would it be unreasonable for her to go but to wear a white poppy instead of a red one?

OP posts:
Casserole · 03/11/2010 20:04

I think if this is truly about her beliefs then the most moral thing she can do is write/speak to the Head and say that she is not able to represent her House, and why.

If that gets her in trouble, so be it.

Surely the whole point of her argument is that there are peaceful ways to stand up for what you believe in? Then let her do that, and accept any consequences.

If she doesn't believe in it strongly enough to do that, then this is all a stunt, and a show, and nothing to do with her beliefs and everything to do with teenage posturing.

HOWEVER, from what you've said, she IS putting her foot down and saying she doesn't want to attend. So why not support her in that? Why is it so important to you to find a way of getting her there, even if that way causes offence, as you've been told over and over it will? Be proud that you have raised a daughter who is willing to accept the consequences of standing up for what she believes in.

coatgate · 03/11/2010 20:05

Lottiejenkins Sad you have made me cry remembering Wilfred Owen. I loved his poetry when we studied it for A Level and can still quote great reams of it. How lovely that you named your son after him.

seeker · 03/11/2010 20:10

Sorry, earwigca - sense of humour failure.

It's obvious from the views expressed that no one has actually clicked on the links provided - whcih is why I c and ped some information. As usual (as in last year!) it had no effect at all. People are so blinkered and ignorant that it is no use trying to educate them.

I think it is outrageous that the OP\s daughter is being put in this position. I think she should either withdraw or wear a red and a whit poppy. But is she was mine, she would be at a different school next term.

pointydog · 03/11/2010 20:11

schmoley, what a bloody stupid comment.

SkeletonFlowers · 03/11/2010 20:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Guacamole · 03/11/2010 20:16

In fact, I really can't stop thinking about this... I am offended by people even thinking it's okay to wear a white poppy.

This is the reason your daughter should wear a RED poppy!

Appletrees · 03/11/2010 20:20

Seeker, who are you calling ignorant?

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 03/11/2010 20:22

I think TBH most people who wear white poppies also wear red ones or at least give money. God knows it's not the servicepeople's fault that they're out there fighting, and not being supported when they're injured :(

But according to some people there is never a good moment to talk about the value of peace, about the futility of most armed conflicts. There will always be someone calling you unpatriotic or unappreciative of the individuals in the forces, which is just utter bollocks IMO.

I thought Christianity was all about peace and pacifism, and recognising the self-perpetuating nature of fighting and wars. But you get professed Christians like Tony Blair practically slavering over going to war. :(

edam · 03/11/2010 20:24

Wow, now people have managed to convince themselves that war isn't political. Blimey. Excuse me for pointing out the bleeding obvious but of course war is sodding political!

Object to the white poppy if you must but not on the entirely erroneous grounds that it is political in some sense while the red isn't. That's just not true. They may not be party political but that's not the same thing as being not political at all. Sheesh.

Appletrees · 03/11/2010 20:26

Wrong. Never a good moment? Nobody has said that. Quite the contrary. We qre saying that a remembrances day service is not a good moment. But you k.ow that and were exaggerating.

Silly comments particularly in the light of pacifist and declarations against war on this thread from red poppy hearers.

earwicga · 03/11/2010 20:27

Guacamole - I'm offended that all those troops died for nothing. I'm offended that a million Iraqis died for nothing. Count yourself lucky you are only offended by what some other people think.

victoriascrumptious · 03/11/2010 20:27

Awww bless your daughter OP. I'd be proud if she was mine x

seeker · 03/11/2010 20:27

I am calling ignorant anyone who thinks that a symbol thought up by the mothers and widows of soldiers killed in WW1 could possibly be disrespectful.

I am calling ignorant anyone who thinks that any soldier in any war would not rather be part of a peaceful solution.

I am calling ignorant anyone who does not think that the most important work in the world is the search for peace.

And if that's you - then I am calling you ignorant.

Appletrees · 03/11/2010 20:29

Edam who has said war is not political?

Death is not political.

earwicga · 03/11/2010 20:30

Well said seeker.

Appletrees · 03/11/2010 20:33

Rubbish seeker.. why the speechifying? Sorry but I think your post bears little relation to much on this thread or the debate. It's no more than rhetoric. Use a tone like that in a negotiation and you wouldn't get very far on the path to peace, that's for certain.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 03/11/2010 20:35

Appletrees - funnily enough that wasn't a dark "some people" meaning people on this thread. Why did you assume that? I meant my experience IRL is that there are quite a lot of people who think that being against war in general or a particular war means that you hate/want to undermine/don't appreciate the people in the armed forces. Talk about peace being better than war (something you would think would be pretty uncontroversial) as it's as if you've said "everyone in the army is scum".

catholicatheist · 03/11/2010 20:35

Seeker totally agree with your post 100 percent apart from this bit

I am calling ignorant anyone who thinks that any soldier in any war would not rather be part of a peaceful solution

Just thinking of recent wars and Abu Ghraib etc. And of those who go over as mercenaries.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 03/11/2010 20:37

And I am a red poppy wearer thanks very much so read my words in that light.

edam · 03/11/2010 20:37

At least two posters have claimed the white poppy is political (and therefore bad in some way), implying that the red poppy is not.

Several posters have given examples of people who served in WW1 and 2 who objected to Remembrance Sunday. Yet people who weren't there are busy slamming anyone who even thinks about wearing a white poppy and describing anyone who wears one to a remembrance service as a cunt.

Actually pacifists in WW1 & 2 served in some extremely dangerous situations, such as ambulance driving or going down the mines - as the miners had all gone to war and the war effort and home front depended on coal.

I think this is a topic which demands thoughtfulness, sensitivity and reflection not knee-jerk condemnation without considering the history and implications.

edam · 03/11/2010 20:41

Btw, just in case there's anyone in any doubt, it is entirely possible to be against war - or against a particular war such as Iraq - while having nothing but respect for servicemen and women risking their lives. Soldiers, sailors and aircrew don't get to decide what they do and where they do, it's the politicians who do that. (Short of war crimes and acts contravening the Geneva Convention where there is personal responsibility.)

Appletrees · 03/11/2010 20:43

Seeker, you said it is obvious from the views expressed no one is reading.. people are so blinkered and ignorant there is no point trying to educate them (Hmm by the way)

If that doesn't imply that people on this thread are blinkered and ignorant I am a banana.

No one on this thread has said anything about the most important work being anything, no one has said soldiers wouldn't want peace. You are clearly implying they did. Want to expand, or just get carried away with the sound of your own rhetoric again? So to what are you referring with your "blinkered and ignorant" comments, if not this thing, which isn't even here?

Only your first comment remains: it was devised by the bereaved of two World Wars. Can it still be disrespectful? Of course! It has become a symbol of protest and opposition. Of course it can be disrespectful. What, do you think the world stands still? Anyone who thinks the world stands still I would consider ignorant. Is that you?

earwicga · 03/11/2010 20:48

Thing is edam, it has been decided by those in charge that prisoners of war aren't subject to the Geneva Convention anymore. America convicted a child soldier to 40 years imprisonment this week.

Appletrees - not a banana surely. A Banana tree.

Heracles · 03/11/2010 20:48

I'll be wearing a badge in the shape of a white house to indicate that I'm more offended than anyone else about something.

Appletrees · 03/11/2010 20:49

Edam. Lots of people who dislike the white poppy have made exactly these points. For example -- it's been suggested that the girl should be as brave as the conscientious objectors, by refusing to be a representative. Many have made the point that most people are anti-war. One relative of a veteran who rejected Remembrance Day still wears a poppy as a mark of respect.

There's a mendacious implication that disliking a white poppy means one rejects the striving for peace.

You all sound like Miss World contestants.