to get DD a white poppy to wear at a remembrance service?

[GallumDrawnAndQuartered]

She is 14 and has been selected by the school to represent her house at their service.

DD is vehemently pacifist and anti-war.

Rather than her get in trouble for refusing to go (which is what she is planning on doing) would it be unreasonable for her to go but to wear a white poppy instead of a red one?

Perhaps people might read the British Legion site about what they do and why: www.britishlegion.org.uk/about-us
read the history of the poppy and reasons behind it here: www.britishlegion.org.uk/about-us/history-of-the-poppy-appeal,

then read the story behind the white poppy here:
www.whitepoppy.org.uk/

and make some informed comments/decisions rather than some of the misguided information on here. Money goes to the PPU to promote the message of pacifism, money for red goes to helping serving personnel, veterans and their families.

She has been asked to represent her house. As such, IMO, she has to represent the views of the majority of her house.

If she feels unable to represent the views of her house due to her personal beliefs then she should talk to her Head of House and explain why she is unable to perform this role at this time.

If she accepts then her views become subservient to those of her house for this service. To wear a white poppy in this circumstance (or, to a lesser extent, no poppy), if it is not the view of the majority of her house, is failing to honour the duty she has been asked to take on.

If she believes in her cause that strongly she can speak up for herself and explain her reasons for choosing not to attend. You can explain to her she is free to do that because of the sacrifices of the people being commemorated in the ceremony she is rejecting. My family wear poppies to say 'Never again' and remember the dead.

My Dad (a veteran of WW11 ) is passionately anti war but he was even more passionate about fighting fascism. He came to Britain from neutral Ireland just to enlist. He wears his red poppy in honour of all who lost their lives in armed conflict certainly there is no glorification of war in his memory.

Heracles - you make me laugh. Nothing like a bit of humour to get you through a war or two.

Your dd does not have the right to represent her whole house whilst making a point about something she personally believes in. The clue is in the request that was made to her, 'to represent her house'.

Fair enough that she has strong views, I think that's a very good thing, but she either needs to have enough conviction in her arguement to stand down, causing problems if need be, or wear the red poppy and do the job that someone mistakenly thought she might appreciate.

A rememberance service is not the time to make a political point. It is a time to remember those that gave their life and their health. They did that because they believed in the cause, or because they simply had no other choice. And if they hadn't your daughter may not be able to have any sort of choice about her political beliefs. She should respect that, anything less is just attention seeking, and rude.

Get her a white poppy to wear any other time she wants if she feels she wants to make that point, but please, do not allow her to do it at a rememberance service.

It is not necessary to wear anything specific in order to remember and honour the dead. If you wish to support the British Legion as you would any other charity, put the money in the pot and either take the poppy or leave it for them to sell to somebody else and make more money.

Remembrance is not a party or a funeral that the British Legion or the government have for which we need an invitation or a badge of some kind. The people who died and are dying were our people, not theirs.

Personally I think it's a disgrace that servicemen and women and their families are not adequately supported by the govt, and so I will usually put money in the pot if I see one. But the idea that if you don't wear a poppy or you choose to wear an alternative symbol to show your respect (it's a different colour of poppy for goodness sake not a smiley face) then you a) don't care b) are trying to make an exhibition of yourself or c) want to upset veterans is ridiculous.

OP - would advocate her to wear both, if she were mine.

I probably know why she was selected but can't say because it will out me too much - that statement will probably out me just as much but hey ho.

She still want's to not do it which will cause hassle but i'll get her to write a letter or something.
i think a red poppy is as much a political statement as a white one. but can also understand it may cause offence which i and she wouldn't want to do.

What about a real red poppy? To wear as a buttonhole? Is that an option?

SEA - nope not me, i've never discussed this with anyone beofre -

Heracles, not really useful in this discussion

where does the money from the sale of white poppies go?

"Any money raised over and above the cost of producing, publicising and distributing the white poppies goes to fund our education work,"

here

so it supports no one but itself

My problem would be with it going to veterans. Let's face it, most of these veterans are not going to be the ones who took service to defend the country against the Nazis threatening its freedom, but professional soldiers who will fight for wages in whatever war of aggression the government chooses to send them to. Which is why the government ought to pay for their needs (and yes, I think it is extremely shameful if they do not).

I personally would be very happy to honour those who fought against Hitler, but feel more dubious about those who went out to fight in Iraq, especially as British soldiers have been associated with human rights offenses in the latter war.

However, your dd needs to get out of this in a way that does not upset or hurt other people. I think the respectful letter is the way to go. And then standing down.

thought it was funny myself

E&M - I don't think you have considered that a white poppy is more appropriate for drawing smiley faces on than a red poppy. Perhaps that's why there is so much offence - I'll have to look more closely at people's poppies from now on ...

and i put an apostrophe in wants FFS

Agree with Sullwah - she should step down in favour of someone who will approach the service in the spirit of remembering those - most of whom were closer in age to your DD than to you or most of us on MN - who died for all of us to live in freedom.

I disagree with your DD's stance but she has every right to hold it. However she doesn't have the right to hijack the event.

By the way Harry Patch - the last surviving Tommy of WW1 - described himself as a pacifist. He still wore the red poppy for his mates who died though. The red poppy is purely and simply about remembering those who died in war. It makes no statement on war itself which we would all agree is never a good thing - despite how necessary and just it might be in certain circumstances.

cory - the vast majority of troops in Iraq & Afghanistan haven't commited human rights offenses. In fact they have been damaged further by knowing these things are happening and being in the horrible position of not being able to do anything to stop them. It is the top brass who let abuse happen, not the vast majority of the troops.

To Gallum's daughter: I think you're absolutely right to refuse to attend the service. If you believe in what the white poppy stands for you should wear it and don't let anyone intimidate or guilt-trip you out of freely expressing your opinion, in either what political symbol you choose to wear (and both poppies are political) or what events you choose to take part in.

Cory

'I personally would be very happy to honour those who fought against Hitler, but feel more dubious about those who went out to fight in Iraq, especially as British soldiers have been associated with human rights offenses in the latter war.'

Of course no one ever did anything dubious in any other war did they? This is naive and offensive.

Poppies are about fallen soldiers and their families - whether you agree with more recent wars (which i politically do not) it still remembers the fallen on all sides

Heracles - what an appropriate topic to joke about

I suppose also the Army/BL uses the poppy in big fanfarey events like that one in is it the Albert Hall? Poppies fluttering down from the sky while simultaneously displays of our current marching/shiny weaponry prowess are exhibited below.

The best way to remember the war dead IMO is not to promote a culture that glorifies war. It bloody isn't sweet and fitting to die for one's country. Far better to be able to live peacefully in it (sorry another poem).

At 14yrs I think that she is old enough to sort it out for herself but perhaps she should read up on it more. I am surprised that anyone should think that the red poppy is pro war!

How can wearing a red poppy be a political statement? It is to show rememberance and respect afaiac.