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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to get DD a white poppy to wear at a remembrance service?

960 replies

GallumDrawnAndQuartered · 03/11/2010 16:23

She is 14 and has been selected by the school to represent her house at their service.

DD is vehemently pacifist and anti-war.

Rather than her get in trouble for refusing to go (which is what she is planning on doing) would it be unreasonable for her to go but to wear a white poppy instead of a red one?

OP posts:
Kaloki · 04/11/2010 19:01

"So people who don't wear a poppy at all are not showing respect? So a person has to wear a badge to show what their feelings are or else they'll be condemned for not being respectful enough/patriotic enough? "

Not wearing a poppy is not the same as wearing a white poppy.

Wearing a white poppy is making a deliberate effort to do something different.

Not wearing one is neither here nor there.

And it is pretty inappropriate to go to a remembrance service wearing a poppy which essentially says, "they died in vain"

Yes, they did, we know. But to go back to a the idea of a funeral, which is very similar. You wouldn't go up to the mourners at a funeral and say "they died in vain" would you?

Surely you can see that either silent support (eg. no poppy), or saying "we will remember them" (eg. red poppy) is more appropriate?

piscesmoon · 04/11/2010 19:02

The fact that some people would be upset should be enough not to do it. I don't think that it is good enough to overlook the individual, as if they don't matter.

cestlavie · 04/11/2010 19:04

I?m really puzzled by the argument for wearing the white poppy on Remembrance day. Surely this thread alone shows that wearing one will offend people? And, perhaps more importantly, offend people at a very specific time of remembrance when it can very easily avoided.

No one against wearing a white poppy on Remembrance day seems to be suggesting that

? war is a good thing
? that people should not be allowed to express their own views
? that people should not be allowed to wear a white poppy or
? that people should be free not to choose to wear any poppy if they want.

All those in favour seem to be (broadly) saying is that on this one day a year, at a Remembrance service or event, people should not wear a white poppy as will offend some if not quite a lot of the people there. And if they?re not comfortable with that then they should either not wear one or not attend. You know, I really struggle to see what the problem with that is.

cestlavie · 04/11/2010 19:05

Oops, slight clarification, "should not be allowed to wear a white poppy anytime anywhere else".

SkeletonFlowers · 04/11/2010 19:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DandyDan · 04/11/2010 19:16

But if people, including people who have a connection to the military or who have had people who suffered in wars, wish to wear a white poppy because it remembers the dead with a sentiment that they feel happier about, why should their feelings be denied? People should be allowed to wear poppies of any colour, and shouldn't get upset about anybody's elses - focus on your own thoughts and prayers and wishes and thanks. It is a denial of people's freedom to say they can't remember wars and the loss of life thereof at a national service for this by wearing the peaceful symbol of their choice.

freerangeeggs · 04/11/2010 19:18

Lots of people were alive during WW2, SkeletonFlowers, including a number of my own family members who survived the Clydebank blitz are not offended by white poppies. I don't see why Thatcher is a more credible example.

cestlavie - no, maybe they're not saying those things. But some of them are saying that white poppy wearers are 'cunts' (including 14yo ones). Complete overreaction, as well as (ironically) offensive.

I don't think the OP's daughter should go to the ceremony if people like that are going to be there, and to be quite honest if that's what 'rememberance' means then I want no part in it at all.

freerangeeggs · 04/11/2010 19:19

DandyDan, I agree with you completely and you worded it better than I could.

onceamai · 04/11/2010 19:20

If dd is such a pacifist don't quite understand why she, or you, think it might begin to be acceptable to upset those with a view different to your own. Confused

piscesmoon · 04/11/2010 19:21

If they know for a fact that it would upset people-shown on here then why would they do it DandyDan? Is it more important for them to make their point and walk all over people's feelings? I think that the individual should count. I am also pretty amazed that the red poppy isn't a peaceful symbol! I take it as such.

piscesmoon · 04/11/2010 19:24

Exactly onceamai! It is perfectly OK to be a pacifist for others but the one thing she could do, in a peaceful way i.e. respect others feeling and she chooses to be antagonistic! Not the actions of a pacifist!

DandyDan · 04/11/2010 19:32

The red poppy is a peaceful symbol. So is the white poppy. Some people won't wish to contribute to the British Legion but will want to wear a symbol of remembrance. Some will want to wear a white poppy because they believe in the aims of the organisation. It is not dishonouring the dead - both those in the military and those who died as a result of war - to wear a symbol of peace.

SkeletonFlowers · 04/11/2010 19:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DandyDan · 04/11/2010 19:45

I'll pick the charities I want to support, thanks. No-one should be dictated to to buy a certain kind of poppy. No-one has ownership rights on which is a more representative poppy, a more peaceful poppy, a more considerate poppy: the thread here shows there are plenty of people who would wear red, and plenty of people who would wear white, and both are remembering those who fought and died in wars.

homeboys · 04/11/2010 19:46

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Message withdrawn

WingDad · 04/11/2010 19:54

'Oh and btw WingDad, my brother is no patriot and is joining the army because he needs a job. I'm sure he's not the only one.'

Well tell him good luck from me because if he's goes into training or duty with that attitude then he won't get far.

And he won't be going to Iraq. If he goes there he'll be on his own because nobody else will be there! Try Afghanistan instead Wink

And it's weird your comment about wearing a bigger poppy if he was ever injured...is that because you feel more entitled to wear one? Hmm

I'd have been pissed off if my wife came over all 'Oh I'll wear a bigger poppy because I've been affected more than anyone else' when I was injured a few years ago.

DandyDan · 04/11/2010 19:59

The British Legion, whilst obviously preferring red poppies because of its history in connection with their organisation and their fund-raising, has stated that both kinds of poppy are acceptable and that wearing a white poppy is not an act of disrespect.

SumfingNew · 04/11/2010 20:03

DandyDan - interesting comment from the British Legion.

I suspect some white poppy-wearers might resent that and will seek some other way of displaying their objections to raising funds for injured servicemen.

hambo · 04/11/2010 20:10

"In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place: and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
...
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.="

freerangeeggs · 04/11/2010 20:18

WingDad, re bigger poppy: No! :D I just said it because I'd be more angry. I didn't actually mean I'd do it, anyway, I'm not Baroness Warsi over here - it was just a rather rushed and shitty figure of speech, if you like. My wee brother does just want a decent job, but to clarify (and to be fair to him) it's a job he'd enjoy and be well suited to. I just felt that I should point out that not everyone joining the army does it for the country.

And on the Iraq thing... d'oh Blush

SumfingNew - why would you suspect that? I don't even understand why you would think that, it's bizarre.

freerangeeggs · 04/11/2010 20:19

hambo:

"What passing bells for those who die as cattle?"

earwicga · 04/11/2010 20:26

'Well tell him good luck from me because if he's goes into training or duty with that attitude then he won't get far.'

Neither of my parents were or are particularly patriotic. They both got through training and duty. Nor any other members of my family who served or who are serving.

They wanted a job.

With the greatest of respect WingDad, who are you trying to kid?

altinkum · 04/11/2010 20:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Kaloki · 04/11/2010 20:35

altinkum Why would you be shot down? The flower reefs sound lovely.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 04/11/2010 20:45

I just want to say thanks to everyone who's posted, it's been very interesting to hear so many diverse views :)

"I suspect some white poppy-wearers might resent that and will seek some other way of displaying their objections to raising funds for injured servicemen" - Why do you think that? Has anything on this thread given you the idea that white poppy wearers are "against" injured servicemen? For the last time, white poppies are not about "showing objections". They are about the hope for peace.