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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to get DD a white poppy to wear at a remembrance service?

960 replies

GallumDrawnAndQuartered · 03/11/2010 16:23

She is 14 and has been selected by the school to represent her house at their service.

DD is vehemently pacifist and anti-war.

Rather than her get in trouble for refusing to go (which is what she is planning on doing) would it be unreasonable for her to go but to wear a white poppy instead of a red one?

OP posts:
seeker · 04/11/2010 14:33

The slogan of the white poppy campaign is "remeber all the victims of war"

PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker · 04/11/2010 14:35

WingDad, you probably don't want or need it but thank you for all that you and those that serve with you do. I will remember my Grandfather this Rememberance, he was a lovely man who served in Burma and would buy a poppy as soon as it was on sale.

LookToWindward · 04/11/2010 14:36

"Windward, I dunno if you're in support of my comment or not..."

Oh fully and completely. I did mean to post something under the quote but the lack of an editing feature caught me out again.

catholicatheist · 04/11/2010 14:37

Windward

you said, ''to actually put your life on the line for you beliefs commands respect''.

Right so if you stand by this then of course you must attribute the same respect for those who commit acts of terrorism??????????? To put your life on the line for your beliefs is called brainwashing and it works both ways! Just because it may be endorsed by governments doesn't always mean it is heroic. Sorry if that is not popular but its true. This is not in reference to WW1 or 2 before people start jumping on it.

WingDad · 04/11/2010 14:37

A good point well made thumbwheel, and I'd tend to agree. It's just in the past I've argued until I'm red in the face and some people still don't agree so that's why I said that.

Seeker, I never said I was against the white poppy, did I?

PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker · 04/11/2010 14:37

seeker, don't you think the white poppy brigade could have chosen a different route of awareness than to make red/white poppy in conflict? If they want to remember all victims of war, which basically says 'not just soldiers' don't you think they could have chosen any one of the 364 days spare?

RitaLynn · 04/11/2010 14:38

A white poppy is remembering the dead, and at the same time expressing an ethical belief, for example someone one might be a quaker. These ethical beliefs are not political.

A red poppy conveys certain ethical beliefs as well (and is therefore equally as political).

If you might get offended by a white poppy, maybe they should be staying at home.

TandB · 04/11/2010 14:39

What Wingdad said - both of his comments on this page.

Getting involved in actively campaigning against war, or to put it more positively, for peace, writing about it, learning about the politics of it, supporting the victims of it. All these things are beyond reproach and would be appropriate on any day, including Remembrance Day. Walking through the door of a church for the sole purpose of attending a service specifically to commemorate the dead with an expression of your personal distaste pinned to your chest is pointless and inappropriate.

However many times people assert that the white poppy SHOULD offend no-one, it doesn't mean that it will not offend. this thread should be a clear indication that people view it in very different ways. A Remembrance service is one of those rare occasion where everyone should be united in showing respect.

Even if you think that the only justified war was WWII, then by all means focus your respect on those who died in that conflict - rare it might have been, but that didn't stop it taking the lives of a whole swathe of our population.

PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker · 04/11/2010 14:40

Rita....a red poppy simply says 'I remember those that have fought'.

TandB · 04/11/2010 14:41

Posie - agreed. Or possibly just "Thankyou".

RitaLynn · 04/11/2010 14:42

And it conveys certain ethical messages, i.e. it was bad that they died, etc

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 04/11/2010 14:42

Then there's no dispute is there

They are different ways of saying very similar things. Why get offended?

seeker · 04/11/2010 14:44

"seeker, don't you think the white poppy brigade could have chosen a different route of awareness than to make red/white poppy in conflict? If they want to remember all victims of war, which basically says 'not just soldiers' don't you think they could have chosen any one of the 364 days spare?"

It's not the 'white poppy brigade" who are making the conflict - where has one of us ever said that people shouldn't wear red poppies? All the aggression is directed at us - not coming from us. ANd it was the women of t Peace Pledge Union in the 1920s who started wearing them at remembrance time - it's not a new thing at all!

And anyone who says the red poppy isn't politicized - you are really deluding yourself - try being a politician not wearing one!

PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker · 04/11/2010 14:44

Rita....as opposed to?

Cadmum · 04/11/2010 14:44

I think that it is fabulous that you live in a country where you can allow your 14 year old to choose the colour of her poppy...

So many people lose the geographic lottery and grow up surrounded in war without the ability to make a single choice--EVER!

RitaLynn · 04/11/2010 14:46

As opposed to "it was good that they died". I'm just merely saying it conveys certain ethical messages.

LookToWindward · 04/11/2010 14:46

"Right so if you stand by this then of course you must attribute the same respect for those who commit acts of terrorism???????????"

To take it to its logical conclusion yes. As I've said already I respect anyone - regardless of race, nationality or belief that puts their lives on the line for what they believe in.

There's a few arguments around "choice" and modern day terrorism in that so often the perpetrators are indoctrinated from an early age to sacrifice themselves but they're still someone's son / daughter / father / mother and they're still worthy of being remembered.

Obviously it isn't as straight forward as that and life isn't that black and white but the broad sentiment stands.

And I think you can hardly compare some canny advertising by the TA to the religious indoctrination carried out by the whatever religious nutter is in the news today.

PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker · 04/11/2010 14:47

It can be a political tool and according to X factor judges a glittering accessory, but most people would rather avoid offence (including those against recent wars, but acknowledge that anger should be directed at politicians and not people on the ground) than make a statement of ethical belief.

Women in the 1920s during a war wearing them and people directly affected by war is one thing....

TandB · 04/11/2010 14:47

Seeker - something can have an impact on someone's political standing without being political in itself.

If I saw a politician taking part in the Remembrance Day parade without wearing a poppy, I would think he was trying to make a point, was lacking in respect,and I would think less of him.

catholicatheist · 04/11/2010 14:54

LookToWindward.. fair enough then. As we all have to remember one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Depends which side of the fence you are on and whose propaganda you decide to believe. I just think most wars are a total waste of human life and dont understand why we have to divide ourselves in such a way by nation, religion etc that makes it easier then to go out and kill our brothers and sisters. It is madness and I will never understand it. It really doesnt have to be like this despite what people are led to believe.

catholicatheist · 04/11/2010 14:56

Looktowindward..what about Palestine? They are not being indoctrinated by nutters? They are just trying to fight back and terrorist methods are the only way they have.

edam · 04/11/2010 15:05

Um, we weren't at war in 1920. WW1 finished in 1918. I imagine the point of the Peace Pledge Union and the white poppy was 'never again' after the horrors of WW1.

As Wilfred Owen said in Dulce et Decorum Est, we should object to the 'old lie' that it is right and proper to die for your country.

That's why my Granddad disliked Remembrance Sunday - the sight of all the politicians who send young men (and women) off to lose their lives standing round looking important.

LookToWindward · 04/11/2010 15:09

My opinion on a particular conflict is irrelevant to the debate.

catholicatheist · 04/11/2010 15:12

Well said edam..it is an 'old lie' used to brainwash people into being used for their own ends. Being clear about this does NOT mean you cannot have sympathy or respect for those who do die. In fact you do them a greater service.

diddl · 04/11/2010 15:19

For me, the fact that the white poppy symbolises "a better way" is insulting as it suggests that those who died did so pointlessly.