to get DD a white poppy to wear at a remembrance service?

[GallumDrawnAndQuartered]

She is 14 and has been selected by the school to represent her house at their service.

DD is vehemently pacifist and anti-war.

Rather than her get in trouble for refusing to go (which is what she is planning on doing) would it be unreasonable for her to go but to wear a white poppy instead of a red one?

Right so I am ''a very poor ambassador for pacifism'' because I get see how propaganda and lack of intelligence allows wars to be justified to the mainstream. Dont forget Hilter was able to convince practically a whole nation to sign up to his agenda.

Then perhaps you could temper the expressions of your contempt.

No: because of the way you conduct yourself.

earwicga thanks for the link!

Catholic - Afghanistan is not an illegal war - it has received UN backing. And 'they' - by which I mean Al Qaeda sheltered by the Taleban - attacked first. Remember Sept 11th?

The poppy gives us an opportunity to remember those who died for us - whatever we perceive as the rights and wrongs of the conflict.

The point is we should remember the (mainly) young men who have died, and are still dying, for our freedom whether that's freedom from fascism, freedom from being gassed to death because we're not Aryan or freedom from Islamic extremism which would have you and I wearing burquas on pain of death.

''Then perhaps you could temper the expressions of your contempt'' I would if it was a minor issue..people having their bodies blown apart on a daily basis is not something you can reasonably be tempered and restrained about. This isnt an argument about a cake mix recipe at the women's institute. Also no need to take such a patronising tone!

I will be wearing a white poppy.

I think some of the arguments about the whole industry of Rememberance glorifying war hold water.

It's like all the recent talk of soldiers as 'fallen heroes' - some may be, some may not be, but calling them this suggests a degree of choice in their fates that they don't have and therefore removes some of the responsibility from the authorities.

I believe very strongly in rememberance. I'm an English teacher and will be studying war poetry with my kids, but I'll be teaching Wilfred Owen and not some of the more jingoistic war poets.

Besides, who could possibly argue that the world wars could not have been resolved in a more civilised way? One ended with two nuclear bombs and the other ended with almost an entire generation of young men wiped out! Rememberance is EXACTLY the time to think about the absolute waste of life these wars caused.

I'm not comfortable with giving money to any organisation that bears the name of Haig, anyway, and the poor veterans shouldn't have to rely on charity handouts.

And you do not have some special insight into the conduct of conflict and political maneuvering. Don't kid yourself. It's like a dysmorphia of understanding.

That's what some would call fighting talk. You need to measure your tone if you want to give pacifism a good name.

Rhinestone please see previous post re Saudi Arabia.

I am NOT against the poppy..The two world wars were a totally different ball game!

Sorry, I just read that over and disagree with myself on a bit of it!

Of course some people can argue that the world wars were necessary, but there are good arguments to the contrary too. That's what I meant to say.

I am more offended by some people on here's perception of our military than by the white poppy wearers.

My DH is a diver for the RN. He is neither "deluded" "brainwashed" a "sheep" or a "poor lad" he is, in fact, an intelligent 41 yo man, who has served in his chosen field for 25 years and never, to my knowledge, killed anyone.

To those who seem to look upon the military with such scorn- there is still a need for a British defence. Afghanistan is not the only threat out there. many of the "poor souls" who join up aren't quite as ill-educated and ignorant as you would like to think.

(I'm getting a bit cross now)

You're not "comfortable?"

Those are weasel words. Talking of propaganda, you sound right on track for your students. A more demanding lesson plan would compare and contrast Owen with the more linguistic poets. But you can't have that can you? Good lord.. they might think for themselves.

Jesus... linguistic is jingoistic

I have to comment on earwicga's comment "I'm offended that all those troops died for nothing"

Do you not think that MORE people would have died if we had not fought Hitler and the Nazis? Eventually the cull of Jews would have ended as the race would have died out eventually, ditto black, asian etc. But EVERY disabled or gay person would have been CULLED on an ongoing basis.

There was an END to the war...there would have been no end to the culling of innocent people who did not fit what Hitler thought acceptable.

But Catholic, the government of Saudi Arabia is not threatening us. ( NOT that that makes them a nice bunch of guys by the way!)

Al Qaeda IS threatening us.

Purpleswan - I wasn't refering to WW2.

Well if 2 planes had not been flown into the twin towers I think Bush would have struggled to find support for Iraq wouldnt he?

Just to pick up on an earlier point - I stand by what I said about labelling an individual wearing a white poppy to a remembrance service a cunt - and that includes the OPs daughter.

I would have no problem using that exact word to express my contempt to anyone who would chose to make such a disrespectful gesture at an event that transcends politics - regardless of age.

If she is old enough to make an informed decision (and for the record I don't believe she is - 14 is barely old enough to be able to tell your arse from your elbow never mind make an informed decision about something that has nine hundred years of context and history behind it) then she is old enough to experience the reaction that such an act is likely to cause.

To be honest at 14 I probably would not have understood the relevance of the red poppy, fair play op if your daughter wants to wear a white poppy every other day of the year - its her choice. But the service is not the place for it.

Red poppies at remembrance services - 900 years of history! Really?

Name calling is not necessary. This is something on which there are a spectrum of opinions. Not a subject where you can be objectively right or wrong. Calling someone names does not make your opinion any more valid or valuable.

The political make up of Europe and the context behind much of the conflict we've seen both in living memory and the centuries before that go back at least as far as William the Conqueror. If a 14 year old is able to understand and draw on that to make an informed opinion then good for them but I remain sceptical.

And "name calling" is necessary - or to take a suitable analogy - would you say that someone noisily picketing a funeral is "expressing an opinion"?

tell your daughter this occasion is not about her

It would depend on their reasons. I might point out that some people might be upset by their actions. I would not however call them names.

It might even be a reasonable thing for them to do, depending on context. However, I cannot agree that quietly (I assume) wearing a white poppy is equivalent to jumping up and down shouting at a funeral. Perhaps standing there silently holding a placard is a better analogy... and no, I'd have no problem with than, so long as the placard did not descend to name calling either.

ooops
no problem with that