to get DD a white poppy to wear at a remembrance service?

[GallumDrawnAndQuartered]

She is 14 and has been selected by the school to represent her house at their service.

DD is vehemently pacifist and anti-war.

Rather than her get in trouble for refusing to go (which is what she is planning on doing) would it be unreasonable for her to go but to wear a white poppy instead of a red one?

earwicga..we know that these interventions increase terrorism they radicalise people because people (who are not as blinded by propaganda as Guacamole) understand that these interventions and wars are about western dominance and greed at the expense of thousands of innocent lives.

earwicga which is why I said 'in my opinion'.

Guacamole - I'm sure that many people will agree with you that the current war in Afghanistan is a defensive war.

But I have two questions:

How many people have Al-Qaeda killed in the UK/US?

How many people have been killed in the conflict in Afghanistan?

Yes, I am aware that Al-Qaeda would like to kill more people in the West (assuming that what I am told about Al-Qaeda is true).
And yes, I know that British and American troops don't (mostly) intend to kill civilians in Afghanistan.

But what are the actual numbers? As an Afghani, looking at the numbers, would you think that the UK/US/allies were offensive or defensive?

The offensive/defensive argument is very much in the eye of the beholder...

Have any of the posters who insist the white poppy is an insult to the fallen actually read the posts explaining how many people who actually served in WW1 and WW2 detested the whole industry of 'Remembrance'?

Some people who were there or served at home supported Rembrance Sunday and poppies. Some hated it. There were an awful lot of people involved in the World Wars, by definition. No-one speaks for all of them. So you cannot shut down this debate by saying 'anyone who wears a white poppy is spitting on the grave of the dead'. And it's particularly daft for anyone under the age of 85 to assume that they know exactly how everyone who served in WW2 felt.

Skeleton - but that's not strictly speaking defensive is it? It's preemptive action (again) surely?

OK, I admit it, that ended up being four questions...

"No it's not about opting out, not all roles within the military are about killing others. I was never ever trained to kill another person - never!"

The military is a professional killing machine, and god bless it for being so. You could be a surgeon, an engineer, a diver, if you're in the military you're part of the paid killing machine.

If you're a waiter you're part of the food business even though you haven't cooked a single bloody thing.

Yes, a lot of us do know that catholicatheist. It's horrific.

GailFawkes - surely all roles in the military are interconnected? Support roles are just that. Support for troops who are ordered into combat.

catholicatheist do not assume I am 'blinded by propaganda' I have formed this opinion through much thought.

Really Guacamole..much thought hey and that is the best you can come up with..an opinion straight out of the Sun or the Star..lmfao!

If people like you were not so easy to bullshit then perhaps these poor young lads would not be coming home without limbs or in boxes because actually governments would meet opposition about these nonsense wars and stop being able to send them for their own political ends!

How many people have Al-Qaeda killed in the UK/US?
How many people have been killed in the conflict in Afghanistan?
But what are the actual numbers? As an Afghani, looking at the numbers, would you think that the UK/US/allies were offensive or defensive?

Google would give you actual numbers better than I can Donki...

As an Afghani, yes I probably would find the UK/US/Allies offensive, but I'm not an Afghani.

The offensive/defensive argument is very much in the eye of the beholder...

Yes it is...

Guacamole..this may interest you..

bit harsh there catholicatheist - hard to see how the govt could have encountered more opposition to iraq war.

There was huge support for the Iraq war at the time Elephants and it was only after a lot of people went out on demos but still only a small minority protested.

Someone up-thread a page mentioned that if the girl won't wear a poppy she shouldn't be at the service.

I disagree. Perhaps if she is taking a formal role representing her house, her school would expect her to wear a poppy, but general pupils or attenders at a remembrance service should not have to wear a poppy if they don't want to. It is not disrespectful to not buy/wear a poppy. It doesn't mean you are not remembering those who died in war and those who lived and suffered in wartime.

Because she is young, why is it being implied she doesn't understand, isn't mature enough to think about these things and cant, with respect and sensitivity, decide for herself?

I hope she feels able to withdraw from being the house representative if she feels unable to wear a poppy, but still attend the service.

Edam
A rational post on an AIBU thread?

Unprecedented!

Maybe you could go out there and see for yourselves? Or ask some people who are out there interacting with these people day in day out (military and civilian)rather than making assumptions about their beliefs?

The biggest harm to troop morale today is not the role that they are doing (whether they agree with it or not) and the injuries/deaths but the lack of knowledge, understanding and real interest in finding out the truth about what they are doing and why that is so prevalent back in the UK, particularly amongst those who condemn the loudest.

How ironic that if it were not for the actions of the people we remember, particularly on Nov 11th, this thread would not exist.

Seriously catholicatheist you are talking out of your arse and I really can't be bothered with you anymore... Goodnight! Whilst you (and I) sleep well in our beds tonight... Try and spare a thought for those (IYO) uneducated, couldn't get a better career (IMO) brave men and women doing a job they should be very proud of.

Catholic: my opinion about this girl wearing a white puppy under these circus are not informed in any way by my views on current conflicts. I gather from this thread that I am far from alone, and we are not blind, ignorant sheep who have fallen for any bullshit. It is not irrelevant that many men and women died who were sent to die, died as civilians, as children. It makes the act of remembrance more powerful. My great grandfather was a victim. Call up papers, a week's training, dead on the somme a week after that.

I remember him, not the generals; I remember my fatherless Granada. This abuse is revolting. You assume beyond your knowledge. You are aggressive and a very poor ambassador for pacifism.

I think Guacamole has answered any doubts I may have had about why she is pro war in other parts of the world...

''As an Afghani, yes I probably would find the UK/US/Allies offensive, but I'm not an Afghani''.

But I am not an Afghani..says it all really!

Further to the Adam Curtis link, he also writes a blog for the BBC which is very good www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/

My phone had a lot of fun with that post.

Yes Guacamole fighing in illegal wars so American infrastructure companies can benefit and we can keep getting cheap oil is certainly why I will be sleeping soundly tonight!

Appletrees I think the girl should wear the red poppy!