to get DD a white poppy to wear at a remembrance service?

[GallumDrawnAndQuartered]

She is 14 and has been selected by the school to represent her house at their service.

DD is vehemently pacifist and anti-war.

Rather than her get in trouble for refusing to go (which is what she is planning on doing) would it be unreasonable for her to go but to wear a white poppy instead of a red one?

imo remembrance service is about individuals who gave so much.isnt a glorification of war,far from it it is really about the futility and loss

she should attend,and perhaps get opportunity to meet service personnel.hear the narratives of those who have seen this 1st hand

Like the one at the top of page Hercales?

Who on this thread is pro-war? Find the post. I have certainly marched against it.

The feeling on this thread has been, if the girl has such determined beliefs that she is ready to upset and offend a lot of local people who lost relatives, who may have fought themselves, who may have been injured, then she should have the guts to tell the school she cannot take part. Now that would be an exercise in maturity.

Oh come on appletrees.

"There's a mendacious implication that disliking a white poppy means one rejects the striving for peace."

No there isn't. No-one's asking anyone else to wear a white poppy, some of us are asking other people to reconsider slagging off/thinking badly of those who wear it. I've said that to me (and apparently to the women who originally made them, and to those who produce them now) the white poppy symbolises the striving for peace. I don't think anyone has said that wearing a red poppy means loving war, that would be stupid.

It's certainly a race to the bottom. Maybe I'll wear a red nappy instead.

"Btw, just in case there's anyone in any doubt, it is entirely possible to be against war - or against a particular war such as Iraq - while having nothing but respect for servicemen and women risking their lives"

But the argument against the red poppy suggests that no one who supports the servicemen/women can be against war.

Quite a few of us in this thread have stated that we disagree with war, but wear the red poppy as a sign or respect for those who have died, and their families and relatives.

"It has become a symbol of protest and opposition."

Has it? Since when? What changed? It still says peace on it and is produced by a pacifist organisation. Which protests are you thinking of?

Yes there is, most definitely Elephants. Seeker's posts, earwig too, I could go back I suppose. But -- yes there is.

I suppose as its a school service it might be ok for her to wear a white one. Might at least get some thinking going. I would want her to wear a red one as well though.

There is no "argument against the red poppy" Kaloki - what are you thinking of? Has anyone said that people who wear red poppies are "cunts" or should be ashamed of themselves?

Arguing that you should wear a white instead is surely arguing that you shouldn't wear a red?

Bananatrees - what are you saying I have said? (btw - my user name isn't earwig)

Silly cuddly old Earwig.

Don't you mean a FORMER child soldier?

Don't you mean 8 years?

Aren't you referring to this guy, Khadr:

"an American sergeant, Christopher Speer, was killed by a grenade that Khadr was accused of throwing. A videotape found after the firefight was said to show Khadr making and planting roadside bombs.

Last week, Khadr, who was born in Toronto and comes from an al-Qaida-linked family, pleaded guilty to all five charges against him, including murder in violation of the laws of war, spying and providing support to terrorism"

Seem to be a lot of straw men appearing on this thread in the last 1/2 hour or so?

I may have missed this if its been covered.

Does your DD really understand what Remembrance day/wearing a red poppy is about?

It doesnt seem that she does TBH. Its a bit of a knee jerk, immature reaction to think it glorifies war.

It doesnt. There are some people who use the time to be all bloody jingoistic and nostaligic about WW1 & 11 but that is not in the spirit of the event.

I think she needs to do a bit more research int this.

Thousands of ordinary, working class lads conscripted into a war they knew nothing about and being blown to bits in countries they didnt know existed. They DO deserve to be remembered and respected.

I am a pacifist but that does not give me the right to deny the bravery or even the misfortune of others.

If she persists in her beliefs (as is her right, ironically given what wouldve happened if Hitler had won the last war), she needs to step down and not use this event as a platform for her blossoming political ideals.

I think WW1 was a monumental waste of human life and achieved less than nothing. But I still visited my G.Granddad's memorial in Belgium and wept at the madness that resulted in him being disintegrated at Paschendale.

Quite, Kaloki.

It is a symbol of opposition to war as if the rest of us are all in favour of war ludicrous supposition. It's a symbol of protest against the Red Poppy campaign and Remembrance Day, as evinced by the OP; certainly this girl thinks it will represent her sentiments opposing the wearing of the Red Poppy and deploring war -- perhaps you should disabuse her if you think it doesn't.

I think wearing a Red Poppy isn't a glorification of war so much as a deploring of it. I have never seen it as a glorification of war; it is a recognition of sacrifice.

Maybe I am being really thick but I don't see anyone saying "you should only wear the white poppy, not the red one". I do see LOADS of people saying that wearing the white poppy (even in conjunction with red) is disrespectful, rude, self-centred etc and that we should only wear red, not white.

Some people saying that it's ok to wear white if you want to, it's not disrespectful but a different symbol of remembrance.

I don't understand why some are seeing this thread as white poppy wearers attacking red poppy wearers (FGS! :o) - it's actually a load of people telling the OP she IBU and a few others saying YANBU!

Elephants the whole thread is about whether the OP's DD should wear a white poppy rather than a red one.

Actually the main thrust of it is you have 364 days to express your protest you have the run up to Remembrance Day to wear a white poppy. But wearing one to a Remembrance Service when you are representing your school is not on.

And the cunt comment referred to exactly that situation.

Omar Khadr was sentenced to 40 years for actions that took place when he was a child soldier. The torture, imprisonment, trial and sentence are all against UN conventions that America is signed up to. Nothing straw man about that.

Try reading this: www.nationalpost.com/Stalin+would+have+been+proud/3737862/story.html

Actually it appears to be about whether she should wear a white poppy or just not go.

From the actual OP

"would it be unreasonable for her to go but to wear a white poppy instead of a red one?"

Also to be fair its hardly like this country is a pacifistic nation. You join the forces these days and you know your going to be fighting in a pointless war about dominance, greed or oil. So I personally refuse to call all soldiers heroes. Most of them join as with their skill set/education they are highly unlikely to find a better paid carer. Lets not be naive about it! Like I said earlier..hardly fighting fascism these days is it!

catholiccatheist - that's not fair. The kids who join have spent their whole lives in a culture which glorifies war.

Not v nice to call a 14 year old girl a cunt btw

Good post Mrs deVere.

Kaloki - yeah I know. What I mean is, the white poppy wearers are not preaching that everyone should cast off the red ones and wear white ones. Just that in their opinion it is ok to wear one (alone or with red), and some reasons why.

Anyway, I would prefer if the white ones raised money for something appropriate - land mine charities or something. But much as I like the idea of a separate day, there doesn't seem to be a more fitting day than remembrance day.

So I guess the problem is really with the govt and army top brass co-opting remembrance and grief for their own ends.

Aw give us a big cuddly wuddly you soppy old thing Earwig.