AIBU to dare to suggest that children are better off NOT in nursery til 3?

[WeakAndMilky]

AIBU to NOT buy into the belief that exposing toddlers to every bug going is good for their immune system? Nurseries are terrible places for bugs and so many DCs spend half their time with D&V, colds, fevers, rashes etc. If you want an example of the 'constant cough/cold syndrome' look on Childrens Health!

True some parents have no choice and children do need to see other children. But they dont do much interactive play before the age of 3 and their immune system has plenty of time to build with more limited contact with other kids and adults.

My own DCs went only to playgroup weekly before school started, and they didnt collapse under the bombardment of viruses when they did go, just the usual minor stuff. My DD never had an antibiotic til she was a teenager!

Please dont bang on about having no choice due to work (you obviously don't have a choice) but there are plenty of mums who do have the choice and choose to send babies and toddlers to nursery.

and you thought it appropriate to deride nursery for no good reason

My dd was actually more ill prior to going to nursery than she has been post going to nursery.

As a "nurse", you should know that some kids just pick up stuff easier than others.

Also what is different between you taking your child to play group and mine going to nursery. Are the kids in your play group some sort of Uber kids who don't get ill?

I suspect your post is an attempt to justify your own decisions by putting other's down. Cheap and unecessary OP.

Well, WeakAndMilky, I don't have any research data to disprove your claims but can tell you that both my DCs went to nursery from 7 months. They had time off nursery only for chicken pox. They are teenagers now and have had less than a week off school in total between them.

your comment "they don't do much interactive play before the age of 3" ... not my experience, nor my kids'...

WeakAndMilky. Its normal for children in or out of nursery to get approximately 8-10 colds per year! It is part of becoming immune to the bacteria in the environment. The nursery question??? Well for completely different reasons, such as more personalised care and environment I prefer childminders until 2 years or a nanny. However, I think from a health perspective that it is beneficial. Children who are constantly ill in their first year of pre-school, have less time there and are likely to be less ready for school than same age peers.
Weigh it up and I would prefer my child to be ready for school and to have become immune to common bacteria before 3n years.
I have no wish to wrap my child in bubble wrap!!
PS They learn to socialise better. DD1 didn't attend until 2, DD2 attended once per week while I went to university from 1yo and out of the two dd2 is far more socially able. She mastered sharing age 2 and reciprocal thinking at 2.5. DD1 still doesn't want to age 4.9!

lilo I completely agree my experience of interactive play is very different. Both my dds did interactive play from 18months because both were exposed to other children frequently (was a CM with dd1 but not nursery).

I'd actually like to know if children at nursery ARE ill more often? Are there any stats on this? I mean how can there be?

Me. WOHM. Dd throws up after lunch and looks a bit peaky. Call - come home, stay away 48hrs just in case.

SAHM Mum. Dc throws up after lunch and looks a bit peaky. Checks how they are in the morning, maybe avoids going to mates house just in case. Goes for nice walk instead.

Who is measuring this stuff. Where are the metrics?

My dd and ds started at a SureStart nursery (three mornings plus two full days) aged 9 months and 5 months respectively. Although I had some initial (media-inspired!) worries, I honestly don't think they could have had a better start in life: both are happy, sociable, confident, and the older one (now 4) is doing well in school. I think they are both at least as healthy as the children of friends who are SAHMs.

Don't understand why OP's other posts have been brought into this...where's the relevance?

I actually think you've been given waaaaay too much vitriol on this OP, even though I don't particularly agree with your viewpoint.

kungfupannda said: 'The readers of AIBU have enough to contend with too, but feel free to add another dose of anecdotal, judgy-pants nonsense to the mix.'

AIBU is for opinion and debate. If posters are likely to be easily upset or offended, then they're in the wrong place. It's perfectly possible to strongly disagree with a poster without getting personal and/or nasty but sadly I have seen a lot of posters here failing to do that.

Wow why don't you just pull her pigtails and steal her lunch money?

you have been very underhand to bring W&M previous posts in to it, please explain what relavance it holds?

I'm sorry W&M I don't agree with all that you are saying, but do believe there was some validity in the way you interpreted the research quoted.
It's a shame that this topic couldn't have been discussed in an adult and civil way.

Instead people thought it reasonable to be disabilist toward W&M godson, tell me are you also racist and homophobic, because in my book it's on the same level.

Any research that shows cortizol levels or stress or better friendship groups etc is pointless. It is only ever applicable to some children and some nurseries.

Studies have shown raised levels of cortisol in children who attend nursery. Children also show higher levels of aggression than children who have not attended daycare.

However the effects are tiny - there is a very slight increase in aggression and a slight improvement in social skills.

So I guess in the end it's a about what works for your family.

BTW DD3 gets everything from DD1 who is at school and there isn't much I can do about that.

Boffinmum, your post of 22:10 is bloody disgusting and, frankly, it's a little weird you went trawling through the OP's other posts to find "evidence" that her opinions was rubbish from real-life circumstance. I thought you were all about the data? If so, the fact that her son has ADHD and her gs has CP has no relevance here, but it would seem here you are trying to suggest that the OP's opinion has no relevance because members of her family have disabilities e.g. it certainly appears you are blaming her parenting for these disabilities.

The plural of anecdote is not data, remember?

as a mother of 3 my older 2 started toddlers nearly from birth and went to playgroup at 2.6 but no with dc3 i am keeping him home until he is, but mainly due to the cost. Alot of my friends and family have all said i am being selfish but seriously what differace will it make to him to wait

"@kungfupannda should I feel bad about not sending my 2yo to nursery?
I'm not being jugemental but i agree with op.
I know full well that nurseries are a breeding ground for bacteria and viral germs."

Piplin - if you want to feel bad about not sending your child to nursery, you go right ahead. But that won't be anything to do with this thread as no-one has suggested that there is anything wrong with keeping your child at home.

I agree that bringing in previous posts is inappropriate, but I suspect Boffinmum and some other posters may have misread the post about the OP's grandson (as opposed to son) and thought she had made contradictory posts about her family makeup.

So I suspect the comments were mistaken troll-hunting, rather than discriminatory.

Well, that is not as bad.. but probably should be pulled as it does read as though her opinions are invalidated by virtue of having disabled people in her family.

What a thoroughly horrid witch hunt.

WeakAndMilky - this is a sensitive topic for many but, having just read the thread, I am sorry for the way you have been treated.

Unfortunately, there seem to be certain topics on MN that are virtual 'no-go' areas which is a shame because surely it should be possible to have a rational discussion about parenting generally on a site called 'Mumsnet' without people feeling that they are being 'guilt-tripped' or blamed for their personal parenting choices.

Also, there is a tendency for 'oldies' to roll their eyes when certain subjects come up and say it has been 'done to death'. Which is fine - for them. But if you are new then it might be the first time you have engaged in the debate. If poster are fed up of hearing about a certain subject, it might be better if they just hid the thread and let others have the conversation, rather than assuming the OP is trying to wind everyone up.

Oh, and btw, before I get accused of being biased, I sit on the fence on this whole subject - DS will be 2 very soon and I am totally torn between whether he should stay at home or start with a CM so actually this thread could have been quite a useful read, had it not got so nasty.

Dare I come back to this?!!

Weak and Milky, you have tried to explain your POV a number of times, I understand now that your main gripe is that it seems to you that children seem to get more minor illnesses if they go to nursery, and it is really unfortunate and sad that women have to take time off to deal with that.

However, your original OP and some subsequent comments were worded so badly, that you have offended and continue to offend. I don't believe you quite deserve the bad press you are getting, and I am sorry that your other posts got dragged into it, I don't understand that at all, but you need to take some responsibility for the furor you have caused, with your highly emotive posts.

Summerheightshigh "Your original post reads a bit like 'children should not go to groups because they might get ill and anyway, they don't need to play with others until they are three'"... thats where it started;that offends all women who send their children to nursery before 3, because you don't think it's necessary.

Personally, I then took offence with Pinkie, and to a lesser degree Posie,who suggested that it is a lame excuse to put children in to nursery to better their social skills.

Yes I took offence to that,and told her to fuck off, for reasons I have posted above.I see PinkieMinx has had that deleted.

If your OP had been "AIBU to think that children get more illnesses in nursery because they interact with other children more", then you might have been able to have a sensible debate. Still volatile, I would think! But you could discuss the pros and cons.

The problem is that you have attacked people's choices re their children,whatever you say, you have done that.
And we will always be defensive, because every one of us is trying to do the best for our children. And there is undoubtedly a lot of guilt around those choices.
And to suggest that if people feel guilty about their choices then they should rethink, is like salt on a wound.
Surely you can see that?

I do have a major issue with the judging on MN, and this has more than average.
You believe you haven't judged, but I can see a lot of judging in your tone. A lot.

That's it from me. I was terribly upset by this thread yesterday. More than I can or want to explain. Suffice to say it knocked my confidence massively. And before anyone says "well you shouldn't be on AIBU then", I can give as good as I get, and am certainly not described as a wallflower. Your post and the subsequent comments just hit a lot of nerves.

arses - I agree that post should be pulled. I could of course be wrong about her mis-reading, but the comments from other posters in response to it make me think there has been a big mis-reading. I can't possibly imagine that those posters are really saying "no point talking to the OP because she has a disabled family member" or that her GS's disability was down to her parenting in some way.

domeafavour - well done for coming back and explaining why you were upset. I agree with you that the OP could have presented this in a way that would have led (possibly) to a reasonable discussion. However, she chose to post an imflammatory title and an aggressive, judgemental post and she will have to deal with the outcome of that. It is noteworthy that the anti-nursery brigade think it is OK to be clear that nursery is bad, full stop, but the slightest hint that staying at home might not be absolutely perfect in every single way, and there is indignant eye-rolling.

Totally agree ScroobiousPip

And kungfupannda I think you're right about posters mis-reading OP's previous posts and mistakenly finding discrepancies; that's the only possible explanation I can find for bringing those posts to the debate.

I hope Boffinmum and Boysarelikedogs will come back and apologise to the OP for their errors.

I've only just come to this thread, so no wish to join in with any of the previous furore, just wanted to add my two'penneth.
My DD has been in nursery since she was 1 year old, and in her first winter she was there had chest infection after chest infection, it was horrible hearing her cough every night. Everyone in her nursery had it, and they all kept getting it again and again.
We took as much time off as we could for her to get better of course, but if I could have kept her home with me permanently I would have done.
In an ideal world where I didn't have to work, and if I could turn back the clock I would send her to nursery from 2.5 rather than 1, I think she is really enjoying it now and getting the best out of it, whereas before I think she would have been just as happy at home.

Surely no right-minded parent would send their child to nursery just for the supposed benefits to their immune system?

Uh - oh, have just read back over the thread - and feel the need to clarify my last sentence (before I get killed!)

I mean that surely no one would send their child to nursery just for health benefits.

dome....can I just say whilst I haven't asked for an apology, because I understand that you are highly sensitive, I would like an acknowledgement that your offence was because you misinterpreted my post. Telling someone to fuck off because you misunderstand them is not okay.

I will not post further on this threat, I didnt intend to post this, but thank you sincerly those of you who felt boffinmums dragging my family into the discussion was in any way valid. My son had ADHD and my gorgeous grandson has cerebral palsy. Both posts I wrote on the Special Needs site to support and help other mums who were going through difficult times, and feeling alone. Now my daughters privacy has been invaded. Yes SN is an open forum and I am not ashamed of my family, but that is where those threads should have stayed.

I did not intend to say people who choose nursery are putting their childrens health at risk in a serious way, just that I think the immune system of a 3 year old is more robust than a 6 month old baby and people should consider this when they look at child care provision. My later posts clarify this but I worded the OP very badly, I see that now.

I was accused also by the same person of not being a nurse, well I post a lot on childrens health trying to help mums who are worried there too.

I have asked MN HQ to delete boffinmums post as my DD would be upset that her DS had been used in this way. Like me she has no problems with discussing him on the SN site, it is very useful, on reflection maybe I'll ask them to leave it.