to want to home ed my eldest dd?

[argeybargey]

I always wanted to home ed our eldest dd but went with the local primary for several reasons that I won't go into here. It is a good school,progressive, and is excellent in many ways that I consider to be important- like pastoral care,approach to environment as well as academic.But I am questioning if it right for my dd;if school is right,for that matter.

To be honest since she started there there just seems to be so much crap that seems to come as part of the package ,and I often think that it would be so much easier if we were home edding and not having to deal with all of the other,negative crap that goes along with the playground,specifically.

My dd loves learning and enjoys school life but lately isn't as happy, and finds the social side bewildering at times - specifically having to deal with other children excluding her or just being generally rough or mean to each other. I know it's par for the course but she's not an instigator and I just feel like why should she have to deal with all of this crap as she is a sweet kid and I hate seeing her sad.

Am I being unreasonable to not want to have to deal with,or for my dd to have to deal with,all of the playground crap?

For me the lack of suitability of parents to HE is about range. I am pretty well educated (honest). I could cover most subjects at primary providing I wasn't expected to cover foreign languages. I have no knowledge of or music so I would have to outsource that.

But even at primary I would be conscious of handicapping my children. School is about more than academic work. My daughter is fabulous at sports. How would she learn that from me? My son is truly gifted musically. How would he learn that from me? I'm tone deaf!!! In fact it was ENTIRELY due to his school that they recognised his musical talent.

And at secondary? How can it be done? I could relearn chemistry and biology I suppose. Physics was always a closed book. My maths might be okay at getting a dull-witted child through GCSE (if I worked hard at refreshing myself) but in no way would it be sufficient to take a gifted child through the possibility and potential of the subject.

If you have children who have not very many talents, are not particularly bright and have behavioural disorders, then I'll accept that HEing might be the right way to go.

I really do have have lots of subject knowledge, qualified teacher status and very many degrees and diplomas, yet I hand my kids over to others for education because I think they need a bit more than what I have to offer. If I taught them they would probably all end up skittish concert pianists or something, knowing how intense I get about standards and effort, but what would the point be in that? They need other children and other adults in their lives to be balanced. I also try to choose schools where there is a bit of a mix of pupils socially, as this helps too. I am not against Home Ed but I think you need something to leaven the bread, tbh.

I feel that one of the most significant things I have done is to help dd1 through a socially difficult time at school. The 'negative crap' as outlined in teh op. Significant for dd1 rather than for me.

hear, hear pintyblud!

Ultimately staying home means you look inwards to your tribe, rather than outwards to the world, and it can make real life puzzling. A colleague of mine Home Edded his daughter very successfully until 16, but she dropped out of AL courses because 'the other students at FE college were not taking things seriously enough'. She then dabbled a bit at an OU course, but didn't really get as far as she could have done IMO. I think you need a bit of rough and tumble in your life and that is actually the main function of school. It can be great fun, it can also bring with it some problems, but ultimately it is a microcosm of adult life.

I agree with you Boffin.

DS sang in the choir at school. We liked it. We also liked it when he had the main part in the school play. We liked it when he got selected for the rugby team. Warm parental glow stuff. No more than that.

But it took the school taking us to one side to tell us that DS was properly musical. Despite our multiple qualifications in lots of things we hadn't spotted it. How could we? We aren't musical.

As far as I am concerned, my job as a parent (now we are past infancy) is to help my child live in and negotiate the real world.

The real world is NOT a nice and fluffy place. It is filled with unpleasantness and danger. And boringness, and responsibility. And hopefully, in my efforts to be a good parent we will navigate this awful journey together.

Getting off the boat at an early age is not something I would consider.

I don't have any children, and no experience of Home Ed. But I'd disagree with some of the things said here.
Firstly, those saying that school opens possibilities (I think music was mentioned) surely a home educating parent would give their child an opportunity to learn music? I see it as a vital part of the curriculum. Not only that, but those who are educated at home would surely have far more time to enjoy these extra activities.

Secondly, those saying that you can't be protected from the 'real world'. I agree, to a certain extent, but having utterly lost all my confidence in myself at secondary school, I'd argue that it's not necessary for a child to be exposed to that. I hated school completely, and yes, of course it's made me more likely to home educate. What else do we base things on if not our own experiences?

A few years ago i considered He for my eldest daughter for similar reasons . I got in touch with a few He groups and eventually i found a particular group that seemed just right .
The kids were great , and the parents were great , some of these were families who had He several children and their older children had gone on to acheive very well , many had taken exams early and acheived fantastic results. I was seriously considering it , but decided against it eventually due to social pressure mainly .

I regret this now , deeply . My dd spent many years miserable at school and to be honest didnt acheive brilliant exam results. ( shes since made up for it and is now very well qualified ) but i think she would have done better out of that enviroment , unhappy kids often dont do so well in school.

There seems to be a general attitude that its par of the course , it is , but it shouldnt be . I found myself normalising behaviour that i wouldve been horrified with if it was occuring at a childminders or a freinds . She was labelled as being " sensitive " , well i think i would be if i was forced to be in an enviroment where i was ignored , bullied and pushed around .

There are a lot of misconceptions about He such as children not being socialized properly and under acheiving , its not true in general . Try another group until you find one that fits , theres lots and lots of excellant resources out there and youll both be well supported , and hopefully , much happier .

Also the point about He kids needing tutoring , many kids in school do too , nearly all schools have extra classes coming up to sats or exams .

But Skyrg, music at my DCs' school is taught by someone who plays the piano and organ and sings.

I do none of those things and would really struggle to teach my DCs music.

I think I was the one who mentioned music. You cannot know about music unless you are musical, I think. DS goes to piano lessons and were I to have home-edded, I'm sure I would have sent him to piano lessons.

Unfortunately his fingers do not do what his voice can do. His fingers are clumsy and can't easily or readily replicate what happens on the sheet music. His voice soars though and he can sing a piece straight through unseen. Absolutely beautifully in a clear treble. Would you like to tell me how precisely this might happen in a nome-edding environment? Because I hate to think of what he might've lost if the school hadn't spotted it.

I totally agree with that Clary, but a lot of schools probably don't have great music facilities anyway. We spent year 7 to year 9 mucking around with keyboards. Literally. Every single lesson, sat in front of them, given a music book, told to get on with it. No variation of instrument, no music theory. My mum plays guitar and piano, so I could have learnt much more from her! I'm only 22 btw, so this wasn't that long ago...

A lot of those who home educate allow kids to do things at their own pace. A CD and Music book would teach a child some of the basics! I don't believe kids always have to be actively taught, they can learn on their own.
If I home educated I would teach a child some of the basics of music and if they enjoyed it, look into lessons or encourage them to find out how best to learn themselves.

My mother, brother and boyfriend are all self taught on the guitar.

Quattro, I didn't realise you were talking about singing. Obviously I can't tell you how this would happen in a home education environment, and I can't really speak for your situation.
However, kids usually get involved in a lot of things that involve singing. If they enjoy it, they'll usually do it. I think it would be spotted. My nephew is four, I have heard him sing plenty of times.

If your DD was having problems with the work set or disruptions in class then I could understand you wanting to home ed. Or if you had issues with the teaching or your DD was being bullied. To consider taking her out of school because she finds it difficult to socialise with her peers sounds a little odd and counterproductive to me.

If the issue is with her interactions with other children, removing her from their company isn't likely to improve things.

This doesn't sound like a school vs home ed issue. It sounds like you want to protect her from upset. No one wants their children to be excluded from others games but learning that it's not the end of the world when that happens is part of growing up. I think it causes more pain to the mother watching it than to the child experiencing it.

If you feel that she could benefit from a boost to her confidence and assertiveness, drama classes outside of school might be a good idea.

So your argument is 'the schools are inadequate, and I am probably more inadequate than the schools but it'll be a better experience for my dcs than the experience that I had at school'

Not convincing. You are allowing your particular difficulties in socialisation (for entirely understandable reasons) to handicap your children. They are different people. The world is a different place.

Maybe some schools have less good music facilities than others; but they all are better facilitated (I hope) than plenty of homes. Until a year ago the most we could manage here was a couple of recorders!

Your mum plays guitar and piano; most mums don't I'm afraid, which is rather the point some of us are making on this thread.

As it happens, I can speak French and German pretty well. I don't know much about physics tho and I've forgotten lots of my chemistry O-level too.

Anyway if you don't need to actively teach kids then we can all relax a bit!

Social isolation was the reason we started to HE DS. We did try to work with the school to help him make friends and integrate, but we gave up because DS was so unhappy.

I think it's absolute bollocks to suggest that forcing DS to continue like that would have been beneficial in the long run. If that were true then why are there so many socially isolated adults in the world? The vast majority of them went to school afterall.

I doubt if DS will ever be particularly popular and I don't care. He doesn't care either!

As for it being a worry that he might have some hidden talent that only a school could uncover and nurture. Hahaaahaa, DS couldn't even read his own name when he left school 18 months ago. His class mates had moved on and the class was being taught basic punctuation. He spent his time at school being lonely, bewildered and believing that he was hopelessly thick. He isn't thick btw, and is doing well now. I believe he just wasn't suited to the school environment.

School is a fucking miserable nightmare for many children, and no-matter how much we would like it to not be so, a lot of children slip through the net and the nightmare continues throughout their whole school career.

OP, I know this isn't relevant to your situation but I am posting to defend HE as I think a lot of the posts on here are unfair.

Aviatrix said it better than me above

"Absolutely beautifully in a clear treble. Would you like to tell me how precisely this might happen in a nome-edding environment?"

Why shouldn't it? We went to a home ed drama and music group a few years ago and they picked out DD as having a particularly good voice. When they put on plays at Christmas they used her for the singing. She now has singing lessons with a lady who regularly gets pupils into the top arts schools into the country at 18.

"And at secondary? How can it be done?I could relearn chemistry and biology I suppose"

Well, relearning your own stuff wouldn't be much use as things have changed so much. It's hard for outsiders to see how it can be done when you don't have the qualifications, but it can, and is by many of my home educating friends. People who say it's only OK for a dull witted child - I think it's easy with a bright child. They get a love of learning and all but teach themselves.

We are absolute proof of this. DD1 took Biology IGCSE (harder than GCSEs and used by private schools trying to vie for the top uni places). I never did Biology at school. I had no knowledge of Biology whatsoever before we started. We did it between the two of us. She took it at 13. She got an A.

"that is actually the main function of school. It can be great fun, it can also bring with it some problems, but ultimately it is a microcosm of adult life."

Is it? Surely being out in the world (as home ed children are - home ed doesn't and shouldn't mean staying at home all day) is a microcosm of life? Is being put with 30 people all born in the same year as you, and all going through the same stage of development at the same time (sometimes of only your sex), and ruled over by one adult who dictates everything you do, a microcosm of life? This is one statement I absolutely cannot believe, and I am a school teacher!

"If you have children who have not very many talents, are not particularly bright and have behavioural disorders, then I'll accept that HEing might be the right way to go."

I have two girls who dance, sing, play muscial instruments and ice skate. They excel in these things because they have what school children don't - time. They are also taking a host of GCSEs at 14 and 11. My eldest has been taken on by a local college a day a week as part of their gifted and talented programme. They have already promised her an unconditional place at their very high achieving sixth form. She has had solo ballet parts with prestigious national children's ballet companies. She has had offers of work when she is older too numerous to mention and interest from people as diverse as Butlins, Disney and more than one good college who got wind of her early GCSEs. Both girls have done lots of professional stage work. I don't have to worry about missing school and the licencing for them is much easier for the councils, meaning they allow much more than they would a schooled child. I have no doubt whatsoever that absolutely none of this would have happened were they at school.

"I would be a total fool to whisk my pfb off to home ed to protect her from this "unpleasantness"."

Home ed doesn't whisk children into some imaginary bubble where they don't have to deal with everyday life any more. They still fall out with friends in the same way that school children do. What doesn't happen is systematic bullying of one child by a whole class. But taking a child out of school isn't opting out of life in some way. It's opting in to everything the big wide world has to offer!

Clary have you researched home educating? There are various different ways of doing it and some focus around giving the child the tools to learn and allowing them to do much of it by themselves.

When I said 'I don't believe kids always have to be actively taught, they can learn on their own' I meant for music, which is what we were discussing. You mentioned maths, which is rather different, imo. Also note I said 'always'. As in, there are some things they can learn alone. Children are always learning, ofc.

I've already said I agree with you in general on facilities, that would be an issue if you chose to home educate. It was more the teaching than the facilities I was criticising regarding my experiences. There were instruments available, but we weren't allowed to use them. Other than those bloody keyboards...
I believe there are positives to home educating that could outweigh negatives of lack of facilities. One to one teaching, for example.

Look, at the last school my kids were at, the teacher said we couldn't allow my dd to take horseriding lessons out of school because it would interfere with her homework (endless worksheets).

It was limiting and oppressive. Now my children have opportunity for all kinds of learning experiences with outside tutors and at all kinds of museums, galleries etc.

If a parent chooses to only teach a child themselves and restrict their activities, then yes, that's wrong. But home ed doesn't mean that and shouldn't mean that, imo.

As a curriculum, we use K12. It's like the Open University for kids but perhaps more detailed. We get all the basic curriculum, can choose languages and extra classes. They send out science kits, maths equipment, art prints and materials. They also have loads of extra courses - this year, my girls are doing video game design and programming.

Really? I'm limiting their choices and careers in life?

And no, I don't see home education as teaching children to 'run away' - I see it as problem solving. Why stick with something you are that unhappy with? If I was unhappy with a situation, of course I could make a choice to leave it if I could come up with a sensible alternative plan. That's not 'running away' - it's intelligent life planning and problem solving.

I once met someone who had taken her DD out of secondary because of bullying and behavioural issues. She wasn't a home edder but was receiving support from the LA. She was shocked that all they got was a tutor for 3hrs a day 2 days a week. I was initially a bit shocked by this too, but if you do the maths this is probably more one-to-one attention than the average kid in a class of 30 gets in a week.

I must admit that having only 1 child and no family nearby (most of DD's friends are school friends) that the thing that would concern me most about HE'ing DD would be lack of social interaction. Plus I have a job! She's approaching secondary and her Y5 QCA results have put her in a pretty unfavourable band for secondary that bears no resemblance to the DD I know, so I've used it as another stick with which to beat myself thought about it a bit recently but I'm still not sure how I'd feel isolation-wise. It's lovely to know there are these HE groups where the children learn how to be together but I wonder how widespread they are.