I now know I'm right about little girls and the hijab.....

[PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker]

talking to a beautiful Somali lady today(they all have hollywood smiles don't they, bloody genetic miracles!!) and she confirmed that whilst her 5 & 7 year old dds don't cover their heads she gets harassed and pressured by men at the mosque that her dds should cover. She said that whilst she doesn't because she loves her dds hair, other women do cover their very young dds. She said the men also say that unless they do it from very young they will not do it when they are the right age!

So it's not only about copying Mummy, just like the rise of the burka it's a renewed stick to beat women with.

Don't get started on the Hamish's, they make men wear skirts, even little boys at weddings.

You going to answer my question?

Hang on a minute, I don't bump into Amish women in the street and so they don't have any relevance. No other faith has the benefit of the doubt and most are patriarchal. I am an atheist. As far as I can see or rather the things that are most visual are muslim women covering and covering their little girls. Perhaps if I still lived in Golders Green I would be arguing something else. But I live in Bristol.

Mother....I am not going to defend the Amish but would have to highlight that it is about meakness and humility and not about sexualisation. I would say the bonnet is more about non Amish looking in rather than the men.

Iv left you a little light reading on it in a previous post..

So if bumped into the Amish in the street, and people were converting to them here, you would have a problem with them?

Think you might like this one...
In the country I live in, there was a huge earthquake quite some time ago. Before the earthquake it would have been odd to see a covered woman, and afterwards, just the opposite! Loads if Imans had been telling the women that it was all their fault for not being modest enough!?!

BTW, men also have rules about what to wear in islam. And fwiw, women are also not seen as 2nd class citizens or such like- my opinion is that it's the culture which embeds that.
And you know what...there are days when I would love to wear a cover (is it just me who thinks there are obvious benefits??) but suspect that it would be my non muslim friends who would be more offended than the muslim ones!

yes...relevant things bother me, tiny weird little sects not so much. Like Scientology, that bothers me.

Motherfunster, in the heart of every Christian doctrine lies the modestification (haha new word!) of women. Women are the reason we left paradise etc etc. Early Christian tradition (at a time when a lot of women had their breasts out in public) borrowed the Ancient Greek attitude to women which was that a woman needs a "little roof" over her head when in public, as her natural place is the home.
That little roof was the head cover, a veil that kept women under cover and under control.
Islam simply adopted that same tradition.

To a degree, any religion that declares women need to have their modesty protected is patriarchal and treats women like children that need protection. The Amish have a similar dress code for men and women, which is not the case for some examples of Muslim families that I see on the street, men dressed in european clothes, women covered up in a much more traditional dress.

I'm not bashing Islam, by the way. I'm only stating that there is indeed a difference in what is perceived as modest for men and women.

...so it's all the Ancient Greeks fault!

[hgrin]

..all I said to my wife was that piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah..

if you say Jehovah once more!...

Johovah!Johovah!

oh dear, I have thrown a stone at you, you left me no choice

Are there any woman here today?

no!

But if chose to wear a false beard rather then being forced to by my husband, would that make me Santa..

Iv just gone stupid now, Posie, I look forward to some threads on Scientology etc,might be a idea to spread the religon thing a bit wider..

.. I'm going to watch what Jordan did next, I'm being made to..honest.

Does it look safe to you?? I'm fucking here you know

I was joking aswell! People always think I'm angry when I'm not

Spikey

So the granchildren of the Poles that were in RAF during the WW2 are not British? After their grandparents fought in the Battle of Britain over 65 years ago and their parents were born here and they were born here...they're still not British? Just British Poles, eh?

Bonkers.

Bonkers to not understand the difference between British born and English.
Don't you get that it isn't up to you? Why the sense of entitlement?
Can't be bothered anyway, at the end of the day, people I KNOW don't agree with you. So in your middle class world of Mumsnet you can think you are right all you want. In the real world, I have laughed at you all with my mates today. Who are equally baffled as to why you want them to be English. What do you say to that? You are wrong. You don't speak for people that have ethnicity other than English. They will call themselves what they want