I now know I'm right about little girls and the hijab.....

[PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker]

talking to a beautiful Somali lady today(they all have hollywood smiles don't they, bloody genetic miracles!!) and she confirmed that whilst her 5 & 7 year old dds don't cover their heads she gets harassed and pressured by men at the mosque that her dds should cover. She said that whilst she doesn't because she loves her dds hair, other women do cover their very young dds. She said the men also say that unless they do it from very young they will not do it when they are the right age!

So it's not only about copying Mummy, just like the rise of the burka it's a renewed stick to beat women with.

So the Amish Bonnet's on little girls are early Sexualization?

Well that's put 'The little house on the prairie' into a new context for me.

Wow, that's fucked up.

I see Posie is getting some flak, tbh I agree with most if not all she says.

She says she "hates" the hypocrisy and double standards that are endemic in all religions but abound in Islam.

Whats the problem in that ?.

As for Burkhas ffs

@Litchick

'Early sexualisation is always a bad thing' -are you saying that by young girls wearing a hijab they are being sexualised - as opposed to all the tv/music programs and clothes being sold on the high street encouraging 5/6 year olds to prance around in mini-skirts and bras???!!

Any young girl that I have seen wearing a hijab often do it to 'copy' their mum - much like other young girls trying on lipstick / stilettos after seeing mum doing that...it's not as sinister as some people might think!!!

Addicted....how do you know they are copying their Mum? I started this thread because I had been told it was about copying, the Muslim I had coffee with on Monday said that women are being harassed by men at her mosque to cover their daughters heads.

Mother....The injustice of a Muslim women is more visual where I live. Perhaps you haven't noticed your fundamental mistake either in your other religious examples. Sari for women, turban for men, Hasidic Jews have Solpik for example and possibly more dress codes for men than women, Nuns are religious people who have male counterparts again with dress codes. I would care if they lived miles away too, but I care more about this sort of crap in Britain, in my home. I care because this level of acceptability regarding inequality is dangerous.

I was told that the rule is that both men and women should dress 'modestly'. Yes, men too - so short sleeved shirts and shorts are not ok then.

So when does a gitl become a woman? Does that mean that little girls are drawing the eye of men?

I don't like to see little girls dressed as women - whether it is hijab or teeny weeny mini skirts and boob-tubes. Whenever I see them I think - what's wrong with frilly frocks and ankle-socks? Pink sparkly shoes and hair in ribbons?

Cultural, not religious.

Addicted - I deplore the sexualisation of young children, be it wearing mini skirts or having them learn dirty dancing.

My understanding is that adults ought to dress modestly under Islam, and in no way draw attention to their sexuality.
Asking the same of children is to accept that they are sexual beings.

I think both are equally wrong and that the later cannot be defended by the former.

Addicted, I agree with Litchick.

I have no issue with an adult woman wearing the hijab. I am sure that for many, it is about cultural identity as opposed to sexual modesty.

I cannot stand to see little girls doing dirty dancing moves or wearing high-heeled boots. I probably feel more strongly about this than the hijab, but I don't like the idea of women being pressured to cover up their little girls' heads (or their own, for that matter). Free choice for the woman/girl? Absolutely. That's not always what this is about, though.

I agree that no-one should be forced into wearing something that they don't want to - but what is the problem if they did? Is it because it makes us as a society uncomfortable?

Too often there is a misconception that if someone wears a hijab, it's because they were forced - just bear in mind that that is not always the case.

Possy, are the Amish Bonnet's put on little Amish girls a example of early Sexualization?

Yes or no?

I don't think saris are part of Sikhism (pedantic emoticon).
Posie, what's your view on Muslim men who choose to grow a beard for scriptural reasons?

It's Posie, not Possy.

In answer to your question the Hamish men wear straw hats and felt hats too. I am under no illusion that the Hamish believe men are heads above women but they are not a vastly growing population and noone I know has converted....

I'm struggling to see your point, at all.

Sorry..Posie,

The Amish bonnet is a sign of modesty.It is in there culture/religious code to dress modestly.

You haven't answered my question, are the Amish, by putting Bonnet's on little Amish girls, a example of early Sexualization?

Fast forward 20 years

Can't be arsed to plough through nineteen pages of this but for my tu'penny's worth: if a woman (or man come to that) deliberately chooses to cover their head and face in public with whatever choice of garment they please then that is good for them. The UK has a long and proud history of championing freedom of expression and speech and that is a good thing.

If however do cover your head and face and attempt to engage me in conversation (in a personal or professional environment) then I will consider you to be incredibly rude and treat you accordingly.

Seems fair?

tums

Lookto, your going to be a bundle of laughs in Santa grotto when you meet a guy with his face covered in cotton wool with you kids come December, poor Santa

Ok, this topic was bound to get some 'action' eh! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and part of that gives women the choice to cover up. I'm a woman who livies in a Muslim country and whose DH and DS are both muslim... I am not.

I've heard every 'bad' story under the sun about women being forced to cover (burka or hijab) by their husbands/families/local mosques etc, but for every one of those, I also hear/know about women who have chosen to cover and about children who do want to copy. (I do find that quite hard to understand though). But at the end of the day, kids want to copy their parents/older kids etc and I think there is a huge element of that going on here. Our DS is less than a year, but I'm sure we'll have 'battles' when he's older when he wants to fast like his daddy etc etc. I'm a teacher and see this all the time, even though parents are sending their kids with plenty of food and water!
Having personally heard MANY womens stories about why they chose to cover, I do find myself erring towards that view expressed earlier- to be more offended by a muffin top or excessive cleavage etc etc.
But hey, wouldn't it be lovely if everyone in the world was sane and rational and could appreciate the views of others!!!

clemette... you're absolutely correct, seems like ds3 constant moaning has taken it's toll!! Sari for women, dhoti or lunghi(sp) for men....this is more about tradition and culture over religion. Sikh Gurus got rid of the veil as part of ensuring women had equal status.

Posie you haven't answered my question.

I have read nothing about the Hamish to suggest that wearing a bonnet is to evade the sexual lustings of men. If you would like to enlighten us all please feel free....I am anti organised religion in it's entirety so it's no skin off my nose.

Erm - Amish - Hamish is a scottish name.

Fucking hell....Amish...I just realised as I left the PC.

Posie, but when I went to a Sikh wedding in a temple I had to cover my head and the men and women had to sit separately. You can interpret any religious and cultural practice in whatever way you choose, but I do find it difficult that you give every other faith the benefit if the doubt apart from Islam.

Amish bonnits

"According to the books of Timothy, Peter and Titus, women should be discreet and modest when it comes to presenting themselves in public. Their hair should not be cut short or done in any fashion other than the simplest one. The clothes they wear should not show any skin nor convey any malice to the opposite sex as part of being a Godly woman.
Bonnets, in particular, show meekness and humility as the head is covered and shielded from the prying eyes of other people. Amish practices dictate that women should not be the cause of distraction and should always be under the rule of their husbands and fathers."

www.knowswhy.com/why-do-amish-women-wear-bonnets/

So Posie, when a Amish person puts a little Amish girl in a bonnet is she being sexulised.. in you world?

Thanks SDTG....wondering where on earth I got Hamish from, did I really think there was a silent H? I don't think so!!